Easy Daisy vs FiFi vs Petzl Evolv Adjust

I just had my first day of aid. It was just aiding some local short hard trad climbs since it was to cold and wet to do free climbing (and I can climb what I aided). I got my gear from https://www.aideerclimbing.rocks/ It run buy super friendly Olle from my city who actually met up with two of us and showed us the gear and explanied how to aid climb. I got an adjustable fifi, simliar to the alfifi, but it looks better made and was way cheaper. After trying that, I cant understand how daisies and fifi on the belayloop used to be the standard. It seemed like the way to go. If i was to climbing something very steep, then more connection points would be of use. Something like the Petzl Evolve. From my very limited experience (and extensive nerdyness), I would guess that adjustable fifi is the way to go. If you are going to be free haning, then get an adjustable fifi and an Petzl Evolve or similar?

I got mine at the Home Depot 

Got mine from Industrial Safety Products. Can't be too safe up there!

Christian Heschwrote:

Biggest problem I find with the evovl adjust is "what do I do with it?" when you're not using it. I'm still working on figuring that part out, especially the tails. Currently I try to always have a 12-16L pack on, and clip the biners to a small biner on the shoulder strap, at sternum height. This keeps it from faffing with my gear on harness, as I don't use gear slings. However, the tails are still problematic, and I'm still refining what might be the best way to keep the whole system clear of my harness, without creating even more headaches.

Clip both on the back gear loops of the harness and daisy chain the tail loop to shorten its faffness. (This also assumes that one has already put some thin cord in a loop through the top holes in the Allfifi buckle to create a clip in loop and the end of the Evolv's tail is clipped to that loop.)

Joseph W. Duttonwrote:

I am pretty new to aid climbing, my partner and I that are learning together and just did South Face WC. I am currently using an Alfrifi with no daisies, I’ll admit that on pitches like 4&5 on SF I got wimpy and put the daisies on, but I can definitely tell that it’s faster and smoother to lead without them. My question is if I plan on aiding with the alfrifi and no daisies would I benefit from adjustable daisy for jugging? I currently have unadjustable daisies and was planning on upgrading to the petzl evolv. 

Frequently when cleaning, I adjust the length of my daisies to accommodate changing rope angles or maybe adjust where I want to be to clean a piece. Ascending without perfectly adjusted daisies is tiresome and inefficient. When leading, I’m mainly on my Alfrifi but in awkward situations I’ll use an adjustable daisy. I simply extent them and let them hang when I’m not using them.

Adjustable daisies are the go-to for at the anchor. I’ll get there, give my self a few feet of slack on the rope and then fine tune where I want to be to haul. If I’m belaying from the belay lounge or a portaledge, I’ll adjust them accordingly. 

Joseph Raywrote:

I don’t aid climb yet but I have used Petzl Ascenders a lot with SAR and playing around.   I have never had one open up on me.   Has anyone ?   Sorry to change the subject 

I have a pair of circa 2009 Petzl Ascenders and, in a situation that could never happen in real live climbing, I have been able to pull them off the rope.
Skot has a newer pair of BD ascenders with a deep rope slot and tighter tolerances between the cam and the slot that will never allow the rope to pass through.

Here’s a bet. Go to your local gym and set up a fixed rope to any anchor, vertical, slab or overhung, it doesn’t matter. Set yourself setup with your usual jugging method. Jug up 5 feet.

Do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING you can to get your jugs to pop off the rope aside from releasing the safety and opening the cam yourself.

I’ll bet you can’t get them to fail. 

I learned how to aid climb before daisies on aiders was a thing.  I still don't use them on my ladders. I have taken a half dozen falls leading on aid and have never lost an aider. 

Quinn Hatfieldwrote:

I got mine at the Home Depot 

Now that’s heavy duty.   Probably 2.5x better than an Alfifi 

Fail Fallingwrote:

Got mine from Industrial Safety Products. Can't be too safe up there!

That’s some serious mechanical advantage!!!  

I've spent thousands of days aid climbing and only dropped an aider once. Nonetheless I often carry a spare although slings will suffice in a pinch.

I'm with Mark. With the exception of flares or roofs I do without connection and go right to the topstep BEFORE EVEN LOOKING FOR THE NEXT PLACEMENT. Even if you don't need to topstep to reach it you can manipulate and inspect it better.

Have you considered Sheer Lunacy? Not quite the "position" of Moonlight, but less crowds and lots of aiding without a lot of big stuff, and what other route has The Shroud Of Elvis?

Ron Owrote:

I've spent thousands of days aid climbing and only dropped an aider once. Nonetheless I often carry a spare although slings will suffice in a pinch.

I'm with Mark. With the exception of flares or roofs I do without connection and go right to the topstep BEFORE EVEN LOOKING FOR THE NEXT PLACEMENT. Even if you don't need to topstep to reach it you can manipulate and inspect it better.

Have you considered Sheer Lunacy? Not quite the "position" of Moonlight, but less crowds and lots of aiding without a lot of big stuff, and what other route has The Shroud Of Elvis?

After deliberation we are thinking that Touchstone might be better than Moonlight for us.  Shorter, more pitches go free and there is a bivy ledge.  

Keith Boonewrote:

After deliberation we are thinking that Touchstone might be better than Moonlight for us.  Shorter, more pitches go free and there is a bivy ledge.  

Keith, Touchstone would be a great first wall to hop on. I'd recommend you and your partner shave off any extra belly fat before spending the night on the ledge - though sufficient, it's tight enough as is up there.

I prefer a Yates  adjustable daisy with a Fifi hook on a malion.

This gives you the option to place a cam hook or other piece permanently on the mallion so you don't lose it.

The only downside is when you're jugging the FeFe hook catches on everything so you can take it off when you're cleaning if that floats your boat

Skot Richardswrote:

Taxation is definitely theft & Biden would definitely use daisies on slab!!  He’d also put biners on the top of his juggs!!   Haha.   

He is only saying that to curry favor with you.

Kev is a California lib.

Through and through. Also bald and opinionated.

A. B.wrote:

*blah blah blah blah*

A. B.wrote:

. Also bald and opinionated.

Wait!

Are you calling out all of us bald guys?

Or just us Bald guys that think you’re an asshole?

either way I’m offended 

Quinn Hatfieldwrote:

Wait!

Are you calling out all of us bald guys?

Or just us Bald guys that think you’re an asshole?

either way I’m offended 

You're such a California lib

Supertopo's back!

Pffft. Most people make aid more complicated than whats needed. I don't use a fifi, it catches on everything. I don't use a daisy or a third etrier unless it is in a flare.

I clip in the rope from the second step and, unless overhanging, then go right to my topstep, which I can comfortably use on dead vertical, before even inspecting the potential next placement.