Retrobolts on Zig Zag, Mt. Erie

To whoever added 3 bolts to the second pitch Zig Zag at Mt. Erie: this is a classic traditional climb and there is not room for bolts on the second pitch. If you placed these, please consider unequipping them and reusing the hangers somewhere else. Thank you. 

There already was a retro bolt on the third pitch as well from a couple years back but apparently someone(s) has finally run out of low quality third or fourth generation squeeze jobs to create elsewhere at the crag and is desperate to find someplace, anyplace to sink another bolt.   Its really rather sad.   I've established a number of bolted routes in the NW but have always gladly walked away when the quality lines were complete.   Maybe I just don't have enough free time. 

What the hell? I feel closer and closer to becoming a curmudgeon every day. 

Do the bolts follow the normal ~5.4 line on the second pitch or where they trying to contrive something out on the slab?

Didn't somebody bolt springboard and they're getting chopped? Now zig zag has bolts? Smh

Erie has had a problem with this for years. There's SOOOOO much undeveloped quality rock elsewhere, I don't understand the constant squeeze jobs and retro bolting. 

Matthew Tangemanwrote:

What the hell? I feel closer and closer to becoming a curmudgeon every day. 

Do the bolts follow the normal ~5.4 line on the second pitch or where they trying to contrive something out on the slab?

Appears to be further to the right in the pictures than the original pitch 2, where's it's actually barely 5th class. 

Kyle Elliottwrote:

Didn't somebody bolt springboard and they're getting chopped? Now zig zag has bolts? Smh

Erie has had a problem with this for years. There's SOOOOO much undeveloped quality rock elsewhere, I don't understand the constant squeeze jobs and retro bolting. 

I've figured its the same person always putting Rakkup fliers on my windshield.  Gotta put up more routes to sell more of your guidebook.

I haven't climbed Zig Zag this year but figured it was only a matter of time before some bolted Springboard. So did that happen?   This is unacceptable and is only tolerated because the Mt Erie mystery bolter is just more motivated than anyone to remove it.   I'm happy to state I'll personally remove these bolts at some point this year if no one beats me too it. 

Darin Berdinkawrote:

I've figured its the same person always putting Rakkup fliers on my windshield.  Gotta put up more routes to sell more of your guidebook.

I haven't climbed Zig Zag this year but figured it was only a matter of time before some bolted Springboard. So did that happen?   This is unacceptable and is only tolerated because the Mt Erie mystery bolter is just more motivated than anyone to remove it.   I'm happy to state I'll personally remove these bolts at some point this year if no one beats me too it. 

A poster on the springboard route page noted they'd be restoring it to it's original state. Hanger has already been removed, I believe they plan on pulling it. There's so many developers using Erie these days, I feel like it was climbed out years ago but that's just me. Some are doing great work with rebolting and adding permadraws, but tiny craglets, for example end of the rope crag, now have 10 or 11 routes up it. 

Springboard bolt is gone already. It was fairly close to the nut/cam placement you make off the horizontal branch.   

I'm curious if the newer bolts are actually on Zigzag or a variation on the right?   

Wow, that is pretty infuriating. Easy to find protection on that route and there was absolutely no need to mar the climb like that. Definitely agree that this deserves removal or the chop.

Pretty shameful.

I saw they are wedge bolts, what can we do to remove them without straight up chopping, so as not to mar the rock further?

It is easy to make the sawed-off bolt invisible forever. Just saw off the bolt as close to the rock as possible, punch it down flush to the rock or lower, and get a tube of QuickCrete Textured Concrete Repair and goop it on. Find some local rock dust or sand and slap it on the goop. There are many products like this concrete repair at hardware stores.

I do a fair amount of rebolting and have a soft spot for Erie but have not visited for many years.

I would be happy to lend my removal equipment and discuss the best practices for removing and patching the holes if that is what should be done.

Wedge bolts (particularly newly installed bolts) are easy to pull without leaving any metal in the rock.

edit: 

I am not suggesting the bolts should be removed. The local Erie community needs to find a consensus on the matter.

If you need manpower for any reason I could come help, not least because I'd like to learn the best ways to remove bolts for future rebolting projects.

This whole chopping project seems premature. First, are the bolts even on Zig Zag? Kyle (fifth post in this thread) suggests not.

Second, there IS a time-honored process for adding bolts to existing climbs. It involves getting permission from: A. The FA team, or if that's not possible, B. The 'local community'. I realize that Dallas has passed, but what about "M. Killien", the co-FA in the guidebook? Were the active locals consulted, or maybe were involved? The Mt Erie FB page would be a good place to ask around, not everyone is on MP. 

There are several ways to get from the anchors at the top of pitch 1 to the anchors at the top of pitch 2 - in my opinion, that's kind of the point. Imagine you're a developing trad leader, you've just jammed your way up the corner on pitch 1, pulled past the flexing bulge, and made it to the anchors. Phew. You look up and right, identify the snag ledge where pitch 2 ends. How do you get there? You can climb up and right, or pad out right, then up, wandering around and making your way higher - in any case, it's a bit run out, you have to look hard for gear, but the climbing is easy and the reward is you got to work on your route finding and head skills. I've led this pitch several ways and there is not one distinct way and variations (Midway pitch 2 on Castle Rock has "variations" in the same way). 

With these new bolts squeezed in, the character of the pitch is completely changed. People will see bolts and follow this newly contrived and squeezed in line, rather than using their climbing skills and creativity to get from point A to point B. 

I'm not one to complain about bolts generally, and I sincerely appreciate all the time, energy, and money people put into equipping lines and replacing anchors. 

Zig Zag is one of just a small handful of "classic, traditional" cragging multipitch lines in Washington at 5.7 and under (Saber, Midway, SE Corner Beacon etc) and is the last place that needs bolts changing the character of an historic route.

Joe Manningwrote:

Zig Zag is one of just a small handful of "classic, traditional" cragging multipitch lines in Washington at 5.7 and under (Saber, Midway, SE Corner Beacon etc) and is the last place that needs bolts changing the character of an historic route.

ZigZag is THE trade route of Erie for new trad leaders. It provides a lot of learning and route finding lessons in a really jam packed and condensed experience. I am really mad that this happened. I live in Bellingham, and even though I'm not local to Anacortes, I climb Erie year round. I couldn't tell you how many times I've lapped Zig Zag at this point. There are a lot of great parts of Erie that can be better served by cleaning and maintaining routes that get less traffic if you want to add to the community. 

Just because Erie is already inundated with hack job four bolt mediocre routes, doesn't mean that it needs any more, or that classic trad routes should be retro bolted. Frogs in space was a pure trad line following an obvious crack, and now it's a mixed route. Yes, it's been that way for a while, and yes you can lead it with gear and skip the bolts if you want, but it changes the character of the route and it certainly changes the experience for people who have been climbing that route for years on gear. 

With these new bolts squeezed in, the character of the pitch is completely changed. People will see bolts and follow this newly contrived and squeezed in line, rather than using their climbing skills and creativity to get from point A to point B.

This is exactly the issue, Joe, thanks for pointing it out succinctly. The squeeze bolters are not seeing the value already there.

If you live in Bellingham and climb at Erie year round I'd say that makes you a local.

The Mt Erie facebook page said in a since deleted post that the bolts are an independent line for access to upper main wall routes. Sounds like it was one of the local developers they were promoting a new guidebook too

Ahh Erie, land of the rakkup, where more often than not yelling, "rock" means a bottle thrown by a muggle. It's a special place, great for gumby watching; and no this isn't Powerline Wall.

Who ever did this bolting better be a newby, as this is an inexcusable action for a seasoned climber.

What came of the bolts?