When to retire carabiners

So I have a couple Trango lockers that I’ve used for my top rope anchor setup for a few years now. They have some grooves in them from rope wear. Question is… how deep of the grooves are too deep and when do I retire them? Also, is there a company out there that takes old carabiners for recycling?

I don't know the answer to your first question, but for the second, there is this: 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112380519/good-use-for-old-biners 

I’d still use them.  Grooves don’t look too deep.

There have been tests on this sort of thing. The cliff notes version is that they need to be severely grooved for any reduction in strength. A far bigger concern is that wear can sharpen edges. I’ve seen a few ropes get sheathed due to this. I heard of a rope getting cut at the RRG maybe a decade ago.

Toprope doesn’t really sharpen a biner the same way perma draws on steep sandstone get it.

I retire gear when I grow tired of it and want something new. Usually not a safety justification.

Those look like they have several more years left on them.  

Alyssa Kwrote:

…..Also, is there a company out there that takes old carabiners for recycling?

Unfortunately, a very large percentage of materials sent for recycling are never recycled. It’s simply not cost-effective to do so. Considering the energy involved in transporting a few carabiners somewhere, and the difficulty involved in recovering just a few ounces of metal, it’s much better to find another use for them.

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/03/13/fix-recycling-america/

edit - Now that I’ve taken out my contact lenses and can see my screen, they look in a lot better shape than some of the carabiners I’m still using.

Those are still good. You might consider using them for belay/rap duty and get some inexpensive steel carabiners for TR anchors. Not only do they last much longer but the rope stays cleaner as there is no aluminum oxide. Steel locking ovals are pretty inexpensive. 

Petzl says retire a biner when the groove is 1 mm deep. Yours aren't close to that. Also - use as the TR anchor is just about the least stressful thing you can use biners for. So IMO you have nothing to worry about.

When they've saved up enough to do some traveling with their family, or maybe when you want to offer them a cushy pension to get them out the door and make room for fresh talent. 

I’d try Edelrid bulletproof carabiners.  Aluminum with a steel insert where the rope runs.

Gunkiemikewrote:

Petzl says retire a biner when the groove is 1 mm deep. Yours aren't close to that. Also - use as the TR anchor is just about the least stressful thing you can use biners for. So IMO you have nothing to worry about.

Exactly the detailed answer I was looking for! Thanks everyone- I’ll keep using these guys and then get new ones once their wrinkles tell me it’s time for retirement.

Gunkiemikewrote:

Petzl says retire a biner when the groove is 1 mm deep. Yours aren't close to that. Also - use as the TR anchor is just about the least stressful thing you can use biners for. So IMO you have nothing to worry about.

Mike, while I agree those biners are fine especially for TR or rapping. They can easily go double that. 

The grooves are deeper than 1mm = .0394". At least from the angle in the photo.

Looks like less than 1mm to me - but that spec is not cited so could have been made up, the measurement is difficult without a new version of the biner for baseline (I’ve done many times), at which point you’re going to find manufacturing variation especially near the bends, if they even make those anymore.  It’s going to be a judgement call.  Worn sport lower offs have increased my tolerance for wear, having a job has decreased it.  From here, those look about 1/2 to 2/3 worn to what I would personally tolerate.  Having a clean rope is helpful - a sandy rope could produce those same grooves in 1 day.  +1 TR loads are very low compared to design - and there are 2 of them.  +1 - they’ll likely noticeably shave your sheath before failing.

James Wwrote:

Looks like less than 1mm to me - but that spec is not cited so could have been made up, the measurement is difficult without a new version of the biner for baseline (I’ve done many times), at which point you’re going to find manufacturing variation especially near the bends, if they even make those anymore.  It’s going to be a judgement call.  Worn sport lower offs have increased my tolerance for wear, having a job has decreased it.  From here, those look about 1/2 to 2/3 worn to what I would personally tolerate.  Having a clean rope is helpful - a sandy rope could produce those same grooves in 1 day.  +1 TR loads are very low compared to design - and there are 2 of them.  +1 - they’ll likely noticeably shave your sheath before failing.

When I refer to Petzl's guidance re. biner grooves, I can assure you that I did not make it up. I climb in a professional setting so adherence to manufacturers' advice is a big, big deal. Feel free to read their PPE Inspection documentation.

Gunkiemikewrote:

When I refer to Petzl's guidance re. biner grooves, I can assure you that I did not make it up. I climb in a professional setting so adherence to manufacturers' advice is a big, big deal. Feel free to read their PPE Inspection documentation.

Post a link to a Petzl document, then.  

Lacking that in your reply makes me think even more that you made it up.

James Wwrote:

Post a link to a Petzl document, then.  

Lacking that in your reply makes me think even more that you made it up.

I was surprised, but Mike is correct.

https://www.petzl.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/06868000001FUVeAAO

I wasn’t doubting it - I just wasn’t believing it until I saw a spec.  Interesting they are citing cutting and not strength - something that is going to vary by size and shape.

Petzl is in agreement with The UIAA Safety Commission: discard karabiners with visible wear more than 1 mm deep.
http://theuiaa.org/documents/safety/How_strong_are_your_karabiners.pdf