Yosemite Now Requires Big Wall Wilderness Permits

1. Ron Owrote:

Permits and registration are the NPS's raison d'être.

Oh how tempting to expand on that. Rangers still come to my rescue if the SHTF so small price to pay if they can work out the bugs.

By my experience the Zion rescue crew uses unethical incompetent personnel and I would rather shoot myself than ask for their help.

Besides, when I started climbing there there WAS NO RESCUE there. Everybody knew that they couldn't screw up so they didn't.

Silly to take potential rescue as a given, but thats what youngsters do,..

7Ron Owrote:

By my experience the Zion rescue crew uses unethical incompetent personnel and I would rather shoot myself than ask for their help.

Besides, when I started climbing there there WAS NO RESCUE there. Everybody knew that they couldn't screw up so they didn't.

Silly to take potential rescue as a given, but thats what youngsters do,..

The best climbers in the world have been rescued for decades. Maybe you're not pushing yourself hard enough ;), or you never faced a rockslide from above. But, wow, Zion is that messed up? Make a memo: Bring a gun.

Not my experience in other parks.

I called in a rescue for a partner. Pretty sure she could have gotten down on her own after some prep (and maybe overnight bivy) but she refused a descent on ice and snow and then a hike 7 miles back to the car with a mobilized knee that hurt to put pressure on.

I learned a long time ago that you don't make a woman do something she insist on not doing. It is her body. Consent. Not demands. That is what mature adults do. So, rescue it was. Quick. Professional.

As for taking potential rescues as a given, that is never assumed, or guaranteed. But the park provides them. You should be thankful. One day you might really need one if the SHTF and you forgot your gun.

So,.. you called for a rescue for your friend even though it wasn't absolutely necessary because you didn't want to disagree with a woman, and the "best climbers in the world" have been rescued (sounds like an oxymoron) so I'm not pushing myself "hard enough" on my hundreds of solo FAs, nor have I experienced rockfall (despite being put in a wheelchair by it).

Uh,... I think I can rest my case.

Ron Owrote:

So,.. you called for a rescue for your friend even though it wasn't absolutely necessary because you didn't want to disagree with a woman, and the "best climbers in the world" have been rescued (sounds like an oxymoron) so I'm not pushing myself "hard enough" on my hundreds of solo FAs, nor have I experienced rockfall (despite being put in a wheelchair by it).

Uh,... I think I can rest my case.

Upset are we? Trying to win something with your "case".  

Be it a failure or smart more, when it comes to another person's injury, I don't make demands that they do something which they say they can't do. Even if I feel otherwise. You are free to do so.

My feelings, as stated, were that she probably could have made it off the mountain. That doesn't mean she should have. There is a difference between could and should. I am not a medical doctor. I don't know if she would have done further damage to her leg. Nor do I  personally feel her pain. She insisted she could not make the journey off the mountain and back without a rescue.  

I don't pass judgment on another's injuries in those cases, and demand that she man up like ol' Ron O. You clearly would. Good for you. You may treat others that way. I don't. My opinion about her ability to get back on her own didn't matter. Hers did. She is an adult.

I am happy to hear you have hundreds of solo FAs and have never been rescued. As Fred Rodgers would say, aren't you're special. That doesn't make the world a better place, however. Being kind to others does. Most mature adults know that. You missed the memo?

Additionally, to suggest that there is something wrong with a rescue because you haven't needed one, and no rescues were possible in your day, is a truly interesting idea. It is like saying no one should call for a medical doctor when sick because, in the old days, people just died. Which many did while climbing. To suggest that you know better than I when it came to my partner's rescue is beyond silly. You don't.

Teton Climberwrote:

I am happy to hear you have hundreds of solo FAs and have never been rescued. As Fred Rodgers would say, aren't you're special. That doesn't make the world a better place, however. Being kind to others does. Most mature adults know that. You missed the memo?

i disagree his ablity to have first acesnts without the need for any rescues is a testament to self reliance, strength, and skill.  Attributes that all climbers should strive for. I am sure sure he is kind as well.  But in this conversation it doesn't matter.  You attacked his character of kindness unjustly.

trailridgewrote:

i disagree his ablity to have first acesnts without the need for any rescues is a testament to self reliance, strength, and skill.  Attributes that all climbers should strive for. I am sure sure he is kind as well.  But in this conversation it doesn't matter.  You attacked his character of kindness unjustly.

That is great. Has nothing to do with the real world need for rescues. And it says nothing about his character as a human being. I have never been rescued either. Means nothing. People get hit by lightning, have heart attacks when climbing, other climbers have dropped rocks from above and killed other climbers. He mouths off about rescues and rangers because it makes him feel better. He is a troll. 

Being a good climber does not say anything about a person's character. Attacking another's actions when they have partners rescued (and when they really know nothing about events) is the act of a desperate person who lacks integrity and is seeking attention. It says a lot about his character. My opinion. 

"A troll is Internet slang for a person who intentionally tries to instigate conflict, hostility, or arguments in an online social community. ... Trolls often use inflammatory messages to provoke emotional responses out of people, disrupting otherwise civil discussion".

Shoe fits. Defending my partner is different from an idiot attacking her rescue.

I do appreciate you thoughts, however.

Teton Climberwrote:

Upset are we? YOU? Trying to win something with your "case".  

trailridgewrote:

Do you actually have the ability to engage in thoughtful conversation using facts or are you just out trolling too? Perhaps you can't properly defend a troll and that upsets you? 

By the way, conversation was about permits. Feel free to start a new thread about yourself.

Seems this has run its course and the permit discussion has devolved into petty bickering. Thread locked.