Pine Creek Canyon vs. Sean Snyder

He's now installing a random rebar ladder to nowhere up there?

I'm so Snyder-ethics confused now. 

Maidy Vasquez wrote:

I'm so Snyder-ethics confused now. 

There is no ethic. It’s all a cover for pathological kleptomania.

Maidy Vasquez wrote:

He's now installing a random rebar ladder to nowhere up there?

I'm so Snyder-ethics confused now. 

Not that much different from bolting a line to nowhere.

A bishop Local wrote:

The difference is in the intent. One is to enrich the community the other is to cause it harm. 

I dunno, a rebar ladder up high might be kinda cool. Don't knock it till ya try it!

I think that the best thing to do here is to not feed the troll.  If we all just ignore him and his antics (as thoughtlessly destructive as they may be) he might eventually realize that no one cares about him and stop.  He feeds off the reactions to his actions and the high it gives him will endlessly fuel more shenanigans until he realizes that no one cares about his bullshit.  It's a tough pill to swallow because to date his antics have included theft, intimidation, destruction of climbing resources, poorly executed rebolting, threatening access by trying to rile up land managers, and endangerment of other climbers.  The sad reality is that no amount of 'trying to work with him' has brought about any real change to his behavior. 

James Woods wrote:

I thought you were talking about tradiban while I read the first part of this.

There are for sure some parallels. 

Max Tepfer wrote:

I think that the best thing to do here is to not feed the troll.  If we all just ignore him and his antics (as thoughtlessly destructive as they may be) he might eventually realize that no one cares about him and stop....

Unfortunately I don't really think this is going to work.  I don't think he ever saw the happy days episode where fonzi jumps the shark.  he's just going to keep plugging away at it.

Max Tepfer wrote:

I think that the best thing to do here is to not feed the troll.  If we all just ignore him and his antics (as thoughtlessly destructive as they may be) he might eventually realize that no one cares about him and stop.  He feeds off the reactions to his actions and the high it gives him will endlessly fuel more shenanigans until he realizes that no one cares about his bullshit.  It's a tough pill to swallow because to date his antics have included theft, intimidation, destruction of climbing resources, poorly executed rebolting, threatening access by trying to rile up land managers, and endangerment of other climbers.  The sad reality is that no amount of 'trying to work with him' has brought about any real change to his behavior. 

Heh. The thing I love about Sean is how he's got you all in the palm of his hand. He has built up his myth and you fear the myth, showing your weaknesses along the way.  Sean is your Baba Yaga.

The key to breaking all trolls is to ignore them, that's obvious, but time and time again the trolls win. Why is that? The answer to the Sean riddle lies in breaking yourself, not him.

Tradiban wrote:

Heh. The thing I love about Sean is how he's got you all in the palm of his hand. He has built up his myth and you fear the myth, showing your weaknesses along the way.  Sean is your Baba Yaga.

The key to breaking all trolls is to ignore them, that's obvious, but time and time again the trolls win. Why is that? The answer to the Sean riddle lies in breaking yourself, not him.

The problem with a Baba Yaga comparison is that seldom has the boogeyman destroyed shared resources or actively worked to throw a monkey wrench (gang) into the established and accepted behavior of a shared area.  You can ignore a boogeyman because they don't actually exist. You can ignore a troll because they only exist on the screen and tend to be sad little people irl. Ignoring action irl isn't an acceptable response, well, unless one is just a keyboard warrior instead of a part of the community that shares the common resources and goals. 

Fail Falling wrote:

Ignoring action irl isn't an acceptable response... 

I used to feel that way too, but am at this point at a loss for what to do that might actually work.  Here in Central Oregon, we've basically exhausted our options for stopping him from epoxying rebar rungs onto established rock climbs.  Have any (legal) suggestions?  The BLM and law enforcement don't want to touch it.  What actions do you think the community can take to defuse him?

Max Tepfer wrote:

I used to feel that way too, but am at this point at a loss for what to do that might actually work.  Here in Central Oregon, we've basically exhausted our options for stopping him from epoxying rebar rungs onto established rock climbs.  Have any (legal) suggestions?  The BLM and law enforcement don't want to touch it.  What actions do you think the community can take to defuse him?

Tbh I have no idea. No option makes sense when you think it through without making it a focus of one's life (which no one should do because he's not worth it.) It's a unwinnable situation and I wouldn't fault anyone for throwing their hands up and just hoping it'll eventually go away, as it's what I would/will do, while feeling bad about that choice. As I said, doing nothing is unacceptable, but not knowing what to do because nothing ethical will work is hopeless, but sometimes that's the only choice until something that will actually work presents itself. 

But throwing ones hands up because there's nothing that makes sense as a way to solve the situation is different than ignoring it and thinking that the ignoring it because he's just a troll is a solution. The former is understandable fatalism and the latter is self-deluded and incoherent 

Posted today by HowNOTtoHIGHLINE

Fail Falling wrote:

Posted today by HowNOTtoHIGHLINE

With all due respect to highliners, bolting to facilitate a circus sideshow is a violation of the sanctity of the outdoors.

What was that bit about trying to kill Dean Potter?

One person's circus sideshow is another person's passion, art and skill. Same as free climbing or wall climbing.

Tradiban wrote:

With all due respect to highliners, bolting to facilitate a circus sideshow is a violation of the sanctity of the outdoors.

Pretty sure they said the same thing about the FA of the Nose. 

Fail Falling wrote:

Pretty sure they said the same thing about the FA of the Nose. 

Climbing is arguably different but I see no point in debating.

Sean will only be encouraged by threatening and salacious posts or videos, I encourage everyone to take a different tact. 

Tradiban is Sean Snyder.

Duh. 

Doctor Drake wrote:

Tradiban is Sean Snyder.

Duh. 

Nah tradiban knows how to turn the caps lock off.