Gymclimber mag - Auto Belay related lawsuit

https://www.gymclimber.com/climbing-gym-battles-1-million-lawsuit-over-auto-belay-accident 

Seattle’s Vertical World climbing gym is, according to the Climbing Wall Association, fighting a $1,000,000 lawsuit brought by an injured gym member, who allegedly fell off an auto-belay route after failing to fully clip the auto belay’s carabiner into his harness.

Here is the intriguing part -

 A closed, intact carabiner was found at the top of the wall attached to the auto-belay line, which was also in proper working condition. According to Johnston, a nearby climber reported that they saw Vandivere attempt to clip in before heading up the route.

Respect to Mr. Johnston for -

Vertical World’s insurance company wanted to settle, but Johnston refused. “If you start rolling over on stuff like this, the industry is going to be hit,” he said. “Everyone is going to look at [gyms] like a payday. 

“It’s a risky move to go to trial,” Johnston admitted, “but I’m willing to do it. I don’t mind being the pointy end of the spear on this one. There will be ramifications if this thing goes the wrong way. We gotta fight this lawsuit, otherwise it’ll be open season for everybody.”

If there is a cause worthy a  gofundme, this is it.

I find the most interesting part to be this line, “Vandivere is suing Vertical World on the basis that the gym staff should’ve clipped him into his auto belay.” He cites ‘gross negligence’ on the gym’s part. Wowza. Gyms do everything they can to confirm people understand how to climb safely. It’s a shame the guy got hurt but this seems out of line. I hope the gym wins.

probably ought to add an asterisk to vandivere's profile in the partners wanted section...

What a scummy lawsuit- I hope everything is resolved as quickly and inexpensively for the gym as possible.

Ouch. I’m sorry he was injured but dude...accept some personal responsibility. A lawsuit like the one filed is 100% about avoiding that!

So he didn't see the posters, didn't see the rules, the waiver didn't work, the orientation video skipped autobelays, and an anonymous gym employee told him it's ok to use it without training. Sounds like the unluckiest guy to walk into a gym.

Lol.  Tech bro can't figure out the intricacies of an autolocking carabiner and sues to avoid the shame of admitting he's a dummy.  Classic!  This is gonna be a really expensive lesson for him to learn to deal with a bruised ego.

Vandivere also claims the waiver form was blank and didn’t come up on his screen due to a technical problem, despite the fact that Vertical World has a signed copy of Vandivere’s waiver.

Classic mix-up. 

Surely someone that dumb can't be worth $1m?

amariuswrote:

https://www.gymclimber.com/climbing-gym-battles-1-million-lawsuit-over-auto-belay-accident 

Here is the intriguing part -

Respect to Mr. Johnston for -

If there is a cause worthy a  gofundme, this is it.

I imagine they won't need a gofundme, as their insurer will take this to the mat.

So it unclipped from his harness as he climbed? Or was he never clipped in and solo'd the route?

Just videotape any kid’s birthday party at a gym. If a bunch of sugar high, ADHD kids can do it successfully, this bungwad should be able to manage it without a “handler”  escorting him around the place.  

Reads like a tech bro who started after watching Free Solo.  Lawyer likely an ambulance chaser who knows nothing about climbing.  The premis is just too stupid for anyone who has even visited a gym once.  They’re obviously looking for at least a cost of litigation settlement by shotgunning out any nonsense they can come up with.

Every auto belay I’ve been on has an auto locking biner.  All accidents I've heard of have been where someone didn’t clip in.  I’ve never heard of one unclipping.  I say he was either high on shrooms and unclipped himself, or botched the clip-in at the base and lost the teather, then fell on a free solo trying to retreive it.  The gate opening or being partially clipped is completely unbelievable to me.  Go try to repeat it.

That's not fair to Shooms! 

Local gym has a second biner that holds stuff down while clipping in. A sign at eye level has instructions including clipping the second to the harness.

Bill Schickwrote:

Reads like a tech bro who started after watching Free Solo.  Lawyer likely an ambulance chaser who knows nothing about climbing.  The premis is just too stupid for anyone who has even visited a gym once.  They’re obviously looking for at least a cost of litigation settlement by shotgunning out any nonsense they can come up with.

Every auto belay I’ve been on has an auto locking biner.  All accidents I've heard of have been where someone didn’t clip in.  I’ve never heard of one unclipping.  I say he was either high on shrooms and unclipped himself, or botched the clip-in at the base and lost the teather, then fell on a free solo trying to retreive it.  The gate opening or being partially clipped is completely unbelievable to me.  Go try to repeat it.

It happened to a girl at our gym. She essentially nose-clipped her belay loop with the main locker. (The belay loop was pinched between the gate and the nose of the locker.) Then she clipped the backup locker to the main locker instead of her belay loop. She got to the top of the wall, and was about to lower when the locker popped off her harness. That was followed by a few intense minutes as she clung deparately to the top of the wall while someone else climbed up to her and re-clipped her in so she could lower safely.

It is possible, but it's absolutely not the gym's fault.

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

It happened to a girl at our gym.

If she managed to survive unhurt, maybe Amazon should hire her to replace this guy.

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

It happened to a girl at our gym. She essentially nose-clipped her belay loop with the main locker. (The belay loop was pinched between the gate and the nose of the locker.) Then she clipped the backup locker to the main locker instead of her belay loop. She got to the top of the wall, and was about to lower when the locker popped off her harness. That was followed by a few intense minutes as she clung deparately to the top of the wall while someone else climbed up to her and re-clipped her in so she could lower safely.

It is possible, but it's absolutely not the gym's fault.

Seen this twice actually. Gym staff frantically stacking crash pads underneath, while another climbed up to reclip the idiot in question. 

Kate Gwrote:

I find the most interesting part to be this line, “Vandivere is suing Vertical World on the basis that the gym staff should’ve clipped him into his auto belay.” He cites ‘gross negligence’ on the gym’s part. Wowza. Gyms do everything they can to confirm people understand how to climb safely. It’s a shame the guy got hurt but this seems out of line. I hope the gym wins.

Perfect Descent auto belays state in their user manual that they should only be used by qualified operators.  That's the loophole that makes this whole suit possible.  Perfect Descent also said in a statement that following Climbing Wall Association standards (showing everyone how to use the auto belay, then watching them do it their first climb) seems reasonable.  "Qualified operator" has no clear definition.  I also hope it goes in favor of the gym.  There are definitely unknown elements at least in terms of what the public knows, but assuming the gym was reasonable, they should be alright.

...But please, everyone continue to whine when gyms won't let you climb how you want to and instead rely on safe practices.

Mark Pilatewrote:

Just videotape any kid’s birthday party at a gym. If a bunch of sugar high, ADHD kids can do it successfully, this bungwad should be able to manage it without a “handler”  escorting him around the place.  

I know that it happens occasionally even to experienced climbers (less and less now that there are those fancy things blocking you from climbing without clipping in) but I gotta echo this statement.  If I can get a bunch of 6-9 year olds to belay and tie-in safely after school for two hours, this person should be embarrassed that they literally cannot handle using a carabiner correctly. Mistakes happen, but personal responsibility plays a big role in how people react. 

Even the PM at my old company was capable of clipping in correctly. Considering the rigorous hiring process at AMZN corporate, I’m impressed, even for middle management.