Black Diamond Reactor

Does anyone have direct experience using the Black Diamond Reactor as a mixed and ice tool and care to elaborate? FYI I am only seeking commentary on THIS tool I don’t care about what other tools you may use (Grivel, Petzl, Cassin ad nauseam) so don’t write all that here also any experience using after market picks on this tool (Krukonogi Steinle etc.) would also be useful 

I think they are a brilliant tools. I've used them on everything from low angle romps to roofs have found them to be really versatile. The swing is natural and the picks are awesome in ice. They climb similar to x dreams but are quite a bit stiffer which makes them alot more confidence inspiring while mixed climbing. As for picks, the pick that it comes with is light-years better on ice than any aftermarket pick, but I have used a set with kruk picks on them for drytooling which felt good. All in all I think they are a great general purpose tool that toes the line with the best of them.

I have used mine up to M7 with only stock picks. I think they can get just a wee bit shifty in the upper grip on anything steeper, but then again I have a friend that climbed a 9 on them. I absolutely love them for pure ice!  

I would be a bit wary of the head design, if used for hard drytooling.  Only one side of the head is attached to the shaft.  On the other side is a removable plate attached by two bolts.  This is different from the design of the Fuel head and the rest of the industry.  

For what it is worth, I have heard some anecdotal reports of people experiencing torsion and breaking of two piece BD heads.  Some people have gone so far as to weld the two parts together.  

Otherwise, they seem like nice tools from my limited experience with them.  

Not to hijack, only responding to the head design comment with a Stas Facebook post below on head designs...one cool thing about the reactor, is it’s a stainless steel head. More durable for pounding. 

Double Jwrote:

Not to hijack, only responding to the head design comment with a Stas Facebook post below on head designs...one cool thing about the reactor, is it’s a stainless steel head. More durable for pounding. 

If you read the comments on that FB post, you will see that Tyler Kempney said that the X-dream head design was changed after that incident.  

Stainless steel heads are not necessarily more durable.  Because the mechanical design of a 2 piece head is fundamentally weaker, BD had to increase the strength by using stainless steel, rather than aluminum to compensate.  The mechanical design of the X-dream head is completely different from that of the Reactor, so comparing the materials used makes no sense.  

Karl Henizewrote:

If you read the comments on that FB post, you will see that Tyler Kempney said that the X-dream head design was changed after that incident.  

Good to know. Thanks for that. 

The BD reps I've talked to have said these are great tools for pure ice, as noted by the 2.8mm tip which is thinner than any Petzl pick, and iirc Cassin too, but this pick isn't T rated so it is 'weaker' than Petzl's picks however you'd have to really torque it to break it anyway.

They do well on mixed but not too much in the double digits just because the open angle of the pick will pop off easier than other tools like the Fuels. This open angle does make it easier when swinging onto ice and the offset handle is more comfortable when doing vertical ice than the Fuels would be. And with the option of adding an adze or a hammer these are great all round tools that I've been told preform great on ice.

Clarification: I've never used them this is what I've been told by representative of BD so take what I say with a grain of salt

Karl Henizewrote:

I would be a bit wary of the head design, if used for hard drytooling.  Only one side of the head is attached to the shaft.  On the other side is a removable plate attached by two bolts.  This is different from the design of the Fuel head and the rest of the industry.  

For what it is worth, I have heard some anecdotal reports of people experiencing torsion and breaking of two piece BD heads.  Some people have gone so far as to weld the two parts together.  

Otherwise, they seem like nice tools from my limited experience with them.  

I’ve used Fusion 1s (two sets), and the Fusion 2 none of these tools ever broke or bent despite brutal climbing I still have my F2 prototypes which have massive stainless heads and several sets of Krukonogi picks but I like the sexy molded Reactor handle so maybe something new...

Double Jwrote:

Not to hijack, only responding to the head design comment with a Stas Facebook post below on head designs...one cool thing about the reactor, is it’s a stainless steel head. More durable for pounding. 

This is a very inexpensive tool no surprise that fitting an after market pick causes this to fail and yes don’t hijack this thread

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

The BD has said these are great tools for pure ice, as noted by the 2.8mm tip which is thinner than any Petzl pick, and iirc Cassin too, but this pick isn't T rated so it is 'weaker' than Petzl's picks however you'd have to really torque it to break it anyway.

They do well on mixed but not too much in the double digits just because the open angle of the pick will pop off easier than other tools like the Fuels. This open angle does make it easier when swinging onto ice and the offset handle is more comfortable when doing vertical ice than the Fuels would be. And with the option of adding an adze or a hammer these are great all round tools that I've been told preform great on ice.

Is this direct observation by your personal use or speculation based on hearsay?

Rob Cotterwrote:

Is this direct observation by your personal use or speculation based on hearsay?

This is what I've been told by BD reps that have used the tools. But a lot of what I talk about there is based on the geometry of the tool, how its shape will affect its climbing and the material too. Like if you ever want to tether these tools then you'll have to buy some thin cord to tie through the hole and attach the biners to since if you didn't the biners could get in the way of your hand and be annoying.

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

This is what I've been told by BD reps that have used the tools. But a lot of what I talk about there is based on the geometry of the tool, how its shape will affect its climbing and the material too. Like if you ever want to tether these tools then you'll have to buy some thin cord to tie through the hole and attach the biners to since if you didn't the biners would get in the way of your hand and be annoying.

Disagree, the spinner leash works just fine through the bottom holes in the handles. 

Double Jwrote:

Disagree, the spinner leash works just fine through the bottom holes in the handles. 

I tried it out and it bothered me but we all have our own opinions :)

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

The BD reps I've talked to have said these are great tools for pure ice, as noted by the 2.8mm tip which is thinner than any Petzl pick, and iirc Cassin too, but this pick isn't T rated so it is 'weaker' than Petzl's picks however you'd have to really torque it to break it anyway.

They do well on mixed but not too much in the double digits just because the open angle of the pick will pop off easier than other tools like the Fuels. This open angle does make it easier when swinging onto ice and the offset handle is more comfortable when doing vertical ice than the Fuels would be. And with the option of adding an adze or a hammer these are great all round tools that I've been told preform great on ice.

sounds a lot like what is said on the youtube video from a couple years ago. Would you say it swings like a single-handled tool, like the quark, viper, cobra types?

DeLa Crucewrote:

sounds a lot like what is said on the youtube video from a couple years ago. Would you say it swings like a single-handled tool, like the quark, viper, cobra types?

I've never used these tools on ice just tried them out in store. But their shape is like the x-dream and ergonomics so it would preform similar to that. I'm actually working on measuring all ice tools that I can get my hands on and seeing how the geometry of each one correlates to it's performance.

This article claims that BD ripped of the x-dream, which like all outdoor companies take each other's designs and adapt them, but the pictures are nice to compare the two tools.

https://www.thealpinestart.com/2018/02/01/winter-or-2018-climbing-gear/

But this is straying away from the main point OP's post

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

I've never used these tools on ice just tried them out in store. But their shape is like the x-dream and ergonomics so it would preform similar to that. I'm actually working on measuring all ice tools that I can get my hands on and seeing how the geometry of each one correlates to it's performance.

This article claims that BD ripped of the x-dream, which like all outdoor companies take each other's designs and adapt them, but the pictures are nice to compare the two tools.

https://www.thealpinestart.com/2018/02/01/winter-or-2018-climbing-gear/

But this is straying away from the main point OP's post

so be it. perhaps branches of this discussion can be helpful to more than just the OP. Would  be really interested to see your results once you’ve done the measuring and testing. I love over analyzing this stuff!!

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

I've never used these tools on ice just tried them out in store. But their shape is like the x-dream and ergonomics so it would preform similar to that. I'm actually working on measuring all ice tools that I can get my hands on and seeing how the geometry of each one correlates to it's performance.

This article claims that BD ripped of the x-dream, which like all outdoor companies take each other's designs and adapt them, but the pictures are nice to compare the two tools.

https://www.thealpinestart.com/2018/02/01/winter-or-2018-climbing-gear/

But this is straying away from the main point OP's post

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

I've never used these tools on ice just tried them out in store. But their shape is like the x-dream and ergonomics so it would preform similar to that. I'm actually working on measuring all ice tools that I can get my hands on and seeing how the geometry of each one correlates to it's performance.

This article claims that BD ripped of the x-dream, which like all outdoor companies take each other's designs and adapt them, but the pictures are nice to compare the two tools.

https://www.thealpinestart.com/2018/02/01/winter-or-2018-climbing-gear/

But this is straying away from the main point OP's post

Right but this guy is merely fondling the tools at a trade show there is no actual information here on how these tools perform on the hill it’s all just speculation of course BD athletes and reps are going to speak highly of the tool because they’re paid to I’m wanting to hear from people who sprung for the tools and rode them into battle nothing like 3cm of chrome moly between yourself and perdition for offering an objective view of performance 

Rob Cotterwrote:

Right but this guy is merely fondling the tools at a trade show there is no actual information here on how these tools perform on the hill it’s all just speculation of course BD athletes and reps are going to speak highly of the tool because they’re paid to I’m wanting to hear from people who sprung for the tools and rode them into battle nothing like 3cm of chrome moly between yourself and perdition for offering an objective view of performance 

I mean I literally said I didn't use them; I was just trying to offer helpful insights based on what I've been told.

If you haven't read this already, try here: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web19w/ms-black-diamond-reactor-ice-tools