Camp Nano 22 Gate Tension Change 2018 2019 2020

Receive some new Nano 22's with different dates and the gate tensions feel wildly different. Thought it was quality control at first (not Camp's strongest in the past) but upon closer inspection there are consistent strengths in date batches, but I have older used ones that are better than some newer/never used. Looks like the rivet hole locations on the newest 2020 ones are slightly further apart and at a different angle to the gate, so they are noticeably stronger than all the older ones. I set up a super non-scientific test with a sling pulling down on the gate and I clipped things to the sling until the gate just began to open, then weighed the bundle.

Date stamp 02 20 (Feb 2020), brand new x3: 765g hanging weight (feels amazing)
Date stamp 10 19 (Oct 2019), brand new x1, lightly used x1: 442g hanging weight (~57% of new 02 20, no excuse for this as they are both newish)
Date stamp 10 18 (Oct 2018), used for 1 trad season (~20-30 pitches) x4: 633g hanging weight (~83% of new 02 20, could be decrease from moderate use).

The feel is so different that I am thinking of contacting Camp about the 2 brand new ones that are from 10 19 and asking for replacements. The gate tension is so light that it reminds me of the old photons with horribly feather-light gate tension that would get stuck open after a while. Newest ones stamped 02 20 feel incredible. Older used ones stamped 10 18 feel great, almost as good as the 02 20 ones. I actually have quite a few more coming in the mail soon, I really hope they are mostly the 2018 or 2020 versions and not the weak 2019 ones.

Rivet change (yellow 02 20, blue 10 19 which looks the same as the 10 18), yellow 02 20 is slightly farther apart and at a steeper angle to the gate:

It’s a known issue with the Nano 22s. Contact their warranty folks and they’ll have you send the bad ones in and ship you new ones, no questions. 

Good test.   I've noticed that less and less are "bad" in the new ones I buy.  Some still soften up and I tend to use them to bail/non draw/racking biner applications.

For how cheap the camp biners are relative to weight and performance it doesn't bother me too much.

I'm going to wait until I receive the whole bunch I ordered recently and then contact them. Surprising difference between 2018 and 2019 versions as the rivets and gate look identical, but the older used ones are stronger. They definitely made an assembly change on the 2020 version, which is sneaky as I didn't see them announce a new version. 

You’ll have to forgive me for asking the stupid question... but why does it matter? I own somewhere around 40 nano’s and I haven’t noticed. Granted, I haven’t been inspecting them for gate tension.

Weak gate tension allows more gate flutter during whippers, greater chance of unclipping your sling or rope on alpine draws, greater chance of getting stuck open from dirt or sand, plus if they feel weak when brand new they are going to feel even weaker after a couple seasons of use. Tight is right in my opinion. Ever felt a DMM carabiner? So tight.

Also an almost 50% variance in gate tension is pretty bad quality standards for what is marketed as the exact same product regardless of year of manufacture.

And yes similarly I own a bunch of Nano 22's and I didn't notice any difference until I just received the ones from Oct 2019 batch which were the first that made me pause and inspect because they felt so weak.

These and the photons have been a real mess in terms of gates, the gates pop open on both of these models (as of 2019) when any sort of twisting force is applied. On all of mine (about 12-15 of them, 6 or so being nanos) I can push the gate around the nose of the biner with my thumb, try that on any other brand wiregate

You bored?

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the wire gate probably doesn’t have enough mass to flutter in any significant way.

Why are your carabiners undergoing a significant twisting force?

Demetri Vwrote: I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the wire gate probably doesn’t have enough mass to flutter in any significant way.

Why are your carabiners undergoing a significant twisting force?

It was a specific thing that made me notice it, I had an adjustable daisy clipped to a bolt with a photon for positioning and moved slightly and when the nose of the carabiner pivoted on the bolt slightly, the gate popped open

Just checked my Nano 22 biners. All of the 2019 ones feel weaker and have less snap then the 2018 biners. I did some weight tests numbers are as follows:

2019 gates,
batch 10 19 AA 25804
gate opened at 692g
batch 10 19 AA 15512
Gate opened at 624 grams

2018 gates
Batch 10 18 AA 26080
Opened at 851G
Batch 10 18 AA 05091
Opened at 784g

I think that my tests have left me not worrying about the differences, and I will continue to use all my Nano 22's. Despite the 2019 biners having less snap to them. 

Joe Crosonwrote: You bored?

Are you?

Is it weird to inspect your life-saving equipment after buying it and before using it?

Jack Yipwrote: These and the photons have been a real mess in terms of gates, the gates pop open on both of these models (as of 2019) when any sort of twisting force is applied. On all of mine (about 12-15 of them, 6 or so being nanos) I can push the gate around the nose of the biner with my thumb, try that on any other brand wiregate

Dang, I haven't had any gates actually pop out of place. You mean you can get the gate out in front of the nose? I just tried to (lightly) manhandle one but it seemed solid. Putting bodyweight or nearly bodyweight on it sideways with a daisy I could see bending it.

But yeah I heard of and saw many, many Camp carabiners with weak or sticky gates in years past but they do seem better now.

Bonus pic of old nano 22's fighting each other and one with a sticky gate from a few years ago.

Demetri Vwrote: I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the wire gate probably doesn’t have enough mass to flutter in any significant way.

Why are your carabiners undergoing a significant twisting force?

On a hard whipper all gates flutter. Wiregates are better (less magnitude and faster reversal) but still flutter. If given the choice I would take the strongest gate tension available up to about where it starts to make my thumb sore from opening it several times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsPNBEMoTPM

Cairn War Machinewrote: Just checked my Nano 22 biners. All of the 2019 ones feel weaker and have less snap then the 2018 biners. I did some weight tests numbers are as follows:

2019 gates,
batch 10 19 AA 25804
gate opened at 692g
batch 10 19 AA 15512
Gate opened at 624 grams

2018 gates
Batch 10 18 AA 26080
Opened at 851G
Batch 10 18 AA 05091
Opened at 784g

I think that my tests have left me not worrying about the differences, and I will continue to use all my Nano 22's. Despite the 2019 biners having less snap to them. 

Cool Peter thanks for checking yours!

Your 2019's are ~20% weaker on average than your 2018's, which is a lot better than mine. Prob not a concern, still interesting. I have a dozen or so incoming this week, we'll see what years they are from.

K Gowrote:

Cool Peter thanks for checking yours!

Your 2019's are ~20% weaker on average than your 2018's, which is a lot better than mine. Prob not a concern, still interesting. I have a dozen or so incoming this week, we'll see what years they are from.

That was just a quick check last night as well. I'm going to recheck all of mine with the spine clamped in a vise. As I noticed that a slight bump or movement can cause the gate to open (and stay open) with less weight on the sling. I'll report back tonight with full batch numbers and weights. 

Unfortunately I don't have a new one to compare it to. But I believe all of mine have seen a similar usage as they are my racking beiner. 

I will happily trade my older nano 22s with weak gates for your newer ones with strong gates. 

I drank the Nano coolaid for years but the new BD mini wires are much better. The mini wires and the Nano 22 wires both weigh the same on my home scale = 23 grams, but the mini wires are cheaper have a WAY better gate action, have a slightly bigger opening and handle better. And they come in pink!

Rexford Nesakwatchwrote: I drank the Nano coolaid for years but the new BD mini wires are much better. The mini wires and the Nano 22 wires both weigh the same on my home scale = 23 grams, but the mini wires are cheaper have a WAY better gate action, have a slightly bigger opening and handle better. And they come in pink!

I just picked up my first BD miniwire (black for my black totem, Nano 22's don't come in black) and they are definitely pretty comparable. In the first couple days of use I still think the Nano 22 nose profile snags less than the miniwire (which reminds me a bit of a scaled down neutrino nose, which were horribly snaggy) so I still prefer the Nano 22 functionally. On paper I still prefer the Nano 22 for the higher strength ratings in all 3 situations but in reality they both are probably equally likely to break if bent over an edge so that's not really a deciding factor.

New colors in BD miniwire are definitely rad! The black gates look cool too, and some of the shiny metallic finish really stands out. 

Update: Luckily all but 3 of the 20-ish Nano 22's I just got are from 2020 and feel snappy. 3 are from 10/2019 and they have weak gate tension as well as a mis-shapen riven on the gate that is even more razor-sharp than usual and is not completely formed into the mushroom head shape. Shreds slings and looks like there's barely any metal holding the gate in. They're replacing those 3. 

I love these carabiners and the Dyons for weight and function but I am not impressed with Camp's quality control.