Loose hold and ethics: Thunderdome at Easter rock

I say if it can be epoxied, it should be. Don't glue something back on after it comes off, but if it is loose now it's probably one or two frost cycles from coming down on someone at the base. And it ain't exactly like Easter is a stranger to epoxied death blocks. The ultimate decision should be with BCC though.

Disclaimer: I have no vested interest in the debate/considerations other than curiosity, respect for Dan Hare, and a vague desire to send Thunderdome in good style someday.

That being said: Out of curiosity, is this the same loose hold that Dougald MacDonald commented on in 2002?

I say we just sue Dougald. 

glue it! Don't let all the comments effect you...this is the type of thing that is better to do without asking...as you can see people are gonna shit on anything you do
(no one has a say except the FAist and the governing body that controls a given area)

I don't remember anything particularly loose, in terms of anything moving or being friable, when I was on it a couple years ago. I'd be curious to hear opinions from anyone else who has been on it recently, since I thought everything felt pretty secure. I wouldn't want to be the guy that trashed the route, because a hold sounds a little hollow. I'd go check myself, but that's a bit of a haul now.

I don't remember it feeling loose a couple of years ago, but those things can easily change. I never noticed the hold on vasodilator feeling loose, but apparently others did and now it's trundled. 

Mike Robinsonwrote: glue it! Don't let all the comments effect you...this is the type of thing that is better to do without asking...

No, we all agree there. Right? Hello? I don't hear anyone disagreeing. Glue it.

Got on it yesterday, purposely skipped the hold. With the right beta it is still the softest 12a trad route I’ve ever done. With that said Easter rock is nothing but an outdoor gym, what’s wrong with gluing it?

Sawyer Wwrote: Gluing holds is primarily reserved for chuffers and weenies

You forgot old dudes who think they own a cliff in a national park and bolt routes illegally.

As for the actual thread, talk to the person who bolted it. And I say if it comes out by hand, then you’re probably ok to remove it by hand. If the route still goes without it, the hold should go.

jessie briggswrote:

You forgot old dudes who think they own a cliff in a national park and bolt routes illegally.

As for the actual thread, talk to the person who bolted it. And I say if it comes out by hand, then you’re probably ok to remove it by hand. If the route still goes without it, the hold should go.

Why should the developer decide what happens to the route, they don't own the cliff. 

My response to Sawyer was in jest, as we found a route in Acadia recently that had two manufactured holds. The route was bolted by an individual who has in the past bolted routes illegally. I was merely poking fun at him for not mentioning the eagles son who glued holds in a national park haha. I also didn’t realize Thunderdome was a trad route. Just place a few cams behind that jug and take the whip! That should do it!!

Travis Bieberwrote:

Why should the developer decide what happens to the route, they don't own the cliff. 

Respect for the 20+ years of joy and community made possible via the original work of the route development/FA team.  
   
The developer will also most likely be the best person to provide insight into the history of the rock features from the FA onwards, providing historical context and insight into the safety-related-route modification choices that were originally made, as well as possibly some of the organic/manufactured alterations that have occurred since.
 
Basically, it’s our climbing community’s solution to the “tragedy of the commons”, and how we self regulate with regard to shared public resources. It’s also our way to honor and respect the effort of those who put in the work of discovery and development for the rest of us to enjoy.

And yes, the developer/FA has no legal claim to prevent or define further human-induced modification of rock on public land, as far as I know, but disregarding their perspective and opinion entirely is the one of the quickest ways to indicate that one isn’t interested in being part of this community.
   

Crowbar all the holds and if they come off it was meant to be. Hell it will happen eventually. And let’s rename the route. Thunderdome is so violent sounding.

Tim Stichwrote: I say we just sue Dougald. 

Class action so I can get me some. 

Tim Stichwrote:

No, we all agree there. Right? Hello? I don't hear anyone disagreeing. Glue it.

I thought we were gonna get litigious.Maybe we could glue somebody just below the jug to warn and offer unsolicited beta.

Travis Bieberwrote:

Why should the developer decide what happens to the route, they don't own the cliff. 

Yeah! What Travis said!

Brent Kellywrote:

Respect for the 20+ years of joy and community made possible via the original work of the route development/FA team.  
   
The developer will also most likely be the best person to provide insight into the history of the rock features from the FA onwards, providing historical context and insight into the safety-related-route modification choices that were originally made, as well as possibly some of the organic/manufactured alterations that have occurred since.
 
Basically, it’s our climbing community’s solution to the “tragedy of the commons”, and how we self regulate with regard to shared public resources. It’s also our way to honor and respect the effort of those who put in the work of discovery and development for the rest of us to enjoy.

And yes, the developer/FA has no legal claim to prevent or define further human-induced modification of rock on public land, as far as I know, but disregarding their perspective and opinion entirely is the one of the quickest ways to indicate that one isn’t interested in being part of this community.
   

Well said

Why should the developer decide what happens to the route, they don't own the cliff.

From the Bureau of Land Management site:

Multiple uses under BLM management include renewable energy development (solar, wind, other); conventional energy development (oil and gas, coal); livestock grazing; hardrock mining (gold, silver, other), timber harvesting; and outdoor recreation (such as camping, hunting, rafting, and off-highway vehicle driving). Please note the special rules regarding original FA route ownership of rock climbing routes.