Texan wanting to get away!

Kip Kasperwrote: How many icu beds are in your town?

you can claim it’s for your sanity or whatever, but ultimately it’s people not chilling out and staying home for a couple of weeks that are keeping this thing going.

I think it's people coming in contact with someone other than their households in close proximity....

Edit to answer the question: 0. There is nothing in my town. Not even the rona. 

You should go to Flagstaff, AZ.  Has what you're looking for.   Big forest for camping.  All kinds of crags.

So how long are you guys gonna keep shouting stay at home? A year? 2 years? Get over it. The virus is wide spread and according to recent reports is even more spread than originally assumed. It's not going to stop spreading now. Restrictions were lifted early and it sucks but this is life now. Take what precautions you can but don't lock yourself indoors for the next 3 yrs. 

I live in Santa Fe and most of Texas is already here so I wouldn't worry about one responsible climber.  Chama will be pleasant temps wise, and though you will have to do some driving there is plenty of sparsely populated climbing to do.  

I’m glad that page two of this thread has provided more advice that I would associate with the climbing community I’m familiar with.

Jessica, the best luck I’ve had with finding free campsites is... freecampsites.net. I can’t speak to local crags in the Chama area, but I would make sure to avoid any Reservation land, as those areas have been super vulnerable and some have had weekend curfews.

And not that we had any monsoons to speak of last year, but it is something to consider and might hinder climbing plans in specific.

Stay well!

It sounds like you are responsible and are willing to travel as safely as possible, so I'll just say this:

If possible, plan your route by avoiding reservation land, if that's not possible then be extremely vigilant and prepare by ensuring (buy groceries somewhere else, plan out where you will fill up outside of reservation land, bring tools in case you break down) you do not need to stop for any reason in a town that is within a reservation or even borders a reservation. There are simply not enough resources for anyone traveling through their land, and putting any more strain on them would be extremely irresponsible and selfish.

Get the New Mexico Bouldering guidebook. There's supposedly excellent quartzite bouldering at sub alpine elevation in the Posos/Nosos area (by Vallecitos). One of these areas is massive, very underdeveloped, and in the middle of nowhere (can't remember what it's name is but it's in the book). I believe there is primitive camping available in/near there. According to the guidebook, this bouldering is like the best bouldering in NM even compared to Roy and there is MASSIVE opportunity for FAing moderates. I've been meaning to go to these areas forever, but it's just too far out of the way.

I was kinda surprised by the number of assholes in this thread. It's absolutely possible to go climbing responsibly during this pandemic, especially if you pick underused or unpopular climbing areas and climb alone or with a closed cohort. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people up on their high horse in this thread just got back from a BBQ with their friends or some shit. I can't tell you how often I've been hearing people talk about how they stopped climbing for the pandemic and in the same breath admit they've been hanging out with their neighbors/friends more. Honestly, people are just giving you shit because you're from out of state. I swear this pandemic has elevated peoples feelings of state-based xenophobia.

Alex Zwrote: I swear this pandemic has elevated peoples feelings of state-based xenophobia.

I don't think xenophobia is the correct term here at all. We're not dealing with sociological "I don't like you because you're not like me or my culture". 

Personally not a fan of people coming into my state from hot spot states right now for the most part, and yes it's true that I've seen more out of state plates at NM climbing spots during any given visit lately than I've ever seen before. Sometimes my car is the only local plate. A woman from out of state (Texas no doubt) was quoted in the Abq Journal recently as saying they evaluated where the lowest Covid numbers were and picked Santa Fe for their vacation based on that. Yeah, thanks but no thanks, really. I think New Mexico has worked harder than many states to keep their infection rates from skyrocketing (Navajo nation notwithstanding, but they have certain challenges other places in the state usually do not). Welcoming in people who live in areas where they are demonstrably unconcerned about infection mitigation is only likely to hurt us. I do personally care about that because I care about people here and our crappy, limited healthcare resources, at least with things the way they are at the moment.

Of course, my statement applies more broadly than the OP, but the OP should certainly take that into consideration if she visits.

Strange that infection cases are rising in the US. The dam springs a bunch of leaks and the response is to blow it up. The hardships of not being able to climb for a few months is devastating.

Aeriliwrote:

I don't think xenophobia is the correct term here at all. We're not dealing with sociological "I don't like you because you're not like me or my culture". 

Personally not a fan of people coming into my state from hot spot states right now for the most part, and yes it's true that I've seen more out of state plates at NM climbing spots during any given visit lately than I've ever seen before. Sometimes my car is the only local plate. A woman from out of state (Texas no doubt) was quoted in the Abq Journal recently as saying they evaluated where the lowest Covid numbers were and picked Santa Fe for their vacation based on that. Yeah, thanks but no thanks, really. I think New Mexico has worked harder than many states to keep their infection rates from skyrocketing (Navajo nation notwithstanding, but they have certain challenges other places in the state usually do not). Welcoming in people who live in areas where they are demonstrably unconcerned about infection mitigation is only likely to hurt us. I do personally care about that because I care about people here and our crappy, limited healthcare resources, at least with things the way they are at the moment.

Of course, my statement applies more broadly than the OP, but the OP should certainly take that into consideration if she visits.

Some quick and possibly bad math says New Mexico has a higher per capita confirmed cases of COVID than Texas (NM: 11,400 cases for 2.1 million residents and TX: 149,000 cases for 29 million residents). The per capita cases are similar though. It seems like NM is doing no better than Texas at containing the coronavirus. Actually reflects on Texas quite well considering Texas has 3 of the 10 most populous cites in the US. Despite the high level of urbanization, Texas has managed to do better on a per capita basis than New Mexico. 

Xenophobia would be the right term. You clearly object to how Texans have been handling the pandemic and this stems from your perception of Texas' culture, even when your objections appear unfounded.

Edit: I looked at the geographical breakdown of the cases and it does seem like the New Mexico numbers are definitely the worst on Navajo Nation. It looks like the numbers would be significantly better without that.

Alex Zwrote:

Some quick and possibly bad math says New Mexico has a higher per capita confirmed cases of COVID than Texas (NM: 11,400 cases for 2.1 million residents and TX: 149,000 cases for 29 million residents). The per capita cases are similar though. It seems like NM is doing no better than Texas at containing the coronavirus. Actually reflects on Texas quite well considering Texas has 3 of the 10 most populous cites in the US. Despite the high level of urbanization, Texas has managed to do better on a per capita basis than New Mexico. 

New Mexico has over twice the testing rate of Texas: 161,062/1million vs. 71,111/1M which should be factored in. NM is 3rd in the country for testing, TX is 41st. The mortality rate in NM is however much higher, indicative of our vulnerable population.

Owen Swrote:

New Mexico has over twice the testing rate of Texas: 161,062/1million vs. 71,111/1M which should be factored in. NM is 3rd in the country for testing, TX is 41st. The mortality rate in NM is however much higher, indicative of our vulnerable population.

That's a good point. I guess I just assumed that at this point anyone who wanted to get tested could get tested. It's not exactly clear how more testing corresponds to more cases. If Texas had administered as many tests per capita as NM perhaps it would have twice as many confirmed cases and perhaps it would only have 10% more confirmed cases.

Also, I assume you're the guidebook author? If so, thanks for the guidebook, it's well written.

Alex Zwrote:

Some quick and possibly bad math says New Mexico has a higher per capita confirmed cases of COVID than Texas (NM: 11,400 cases for 2.1 million residents and TX: 149,000 cases for 29 million residents). The per capita cases are similar though. It seems like NM is doing no better than Texas at containing the coronavirus. Actually reflects on Texas quite well considering Texas has 3 of the 10 most populous cites in the US. Despite the high level of urbanization, Texas has managed to do better on a per capita basis than New Mexico. 

Xenophobia would be the right term. You clearly object to how Texans have been handling the pandemic and this stems from your perception of Texas' culture, even when your objections appear unfounded.

Edit: I looked at the geographical breakdown of the cases and it does seem like the New Mexico numbers are definitely the worst on Navajo Nation. It looks like the numbers would be significantly better without that.

The highest rate of cases in NM (1:50) are in Gallup and Farmington. Yes, our numbers would otherwise pan out much lower. This is clearly being calculated as a heavily weighted variable by those who are visiting the rest of the state for that very reason. As an aside, the challenges on the rez are different than other counties/regions. My cousin is a nurse in Flag and they have been receiving Covid patients from the NN. She said the difficulty in hygiene for many there (no running water, no electricity) complicates infection spread, not to mention that lack of telecommunications means many people do not know about the virus and have showed up at her hospital with no understanding of why they are sick. These problems don't apply much to the rest of the state.

Anyway, I disagree about xenophobia definition here. Working to protect against the behavior of people (not) believing or following the science due to political leanings or belief in fringe media isn't a problem with culture. It's a problem with lack of education or perhaps simple stupidity. It's very much on display in certain states. I mean, don't get me wrong, Texans are always annoying when here (  ) but Texas has far better medical care and facilities than we do, so my concern is that they asymptomatically bring infection and then go, leaving behind probably the lowest paid service people and their families with exposure, less than ideal healthcare options, and not much money.

Calling the entire state of Texas a "hotspot" is a pretty big exaggeration. Our state has a large rural land area containing many small towns where there might be a handful of cases. The infection rate in my county is about .005%. Certainly there are a few "hotspots" (read: large cities) within the state but the OP obviously doesn't live in or anywhere near one of them.

Joel Thompsonwrote: Calling the entire state of Texas a "hotspot" is a pretty big exaggeration. Our state has a large rural land area containing many small towns where there might be a handful of cases. The infection rate in my county is about .005%. Certainly there are a few "hotspots" (read: large cities) within the state but the OP obviously doesn't live in or anywhere near one of them.

My 96-year-old grandma lives in Pampa.  If the rest of the communities there are taking it as seriously as she takes it, when it does get up there it's not going to take long to get around the community.

But that's kind of irrelevant to the OP.  IMO, it's way safer to be out climbing than it is to be hanging out in a bar... personally, I'll do one but not the other.

The first page of this thread is A+ New Mexican!!!

It was announced today that anyone entering the state of New Mexico, by plane or car, must quarantine for 14 days.

Meh... Gave up on it when an opportunity to make money came up.

But reading this thread has been swell. :)

Sometimes, if you're not part of the solution...

Maybe when infections are under control. Or we could all just say F-it... live and let die. Seriously... how unaware are people of the situation? I wonder why certain areas are having problems.