Survey for new concept product

Sorry if this is not allowed on the forum. But, I am taking a class focusing on developing new products. This product is a concept and I am surveying to gather data on if people would actually use it or not.

Here is the survey

Thank you for your time and leave a response if you feel inclined here on the discussion!

I'd be a lot more likely to complete the survey if I knew what it was about. Liquid chalk?

It's for magic liquid chalk which warms up your hands so you can climb in the cold, I hope it works out for you! 

It's an interesting idea that's for sure, but the better solution is to just spend a few bucks on hand warmers, and put several in your chalk bag. 

“Occasionally” and “frequently” are pretty vague terms. Why not a # per week?

Neat idea, I'd certainly be interested in trying it out.  Big thing I would wonder about is how long it lasts per application, and how long a bottle typically lasts.  

Honestly, one of the very few reasonable products I've seen a survey for on Mountain Project. Would be curious to feel the reaction.

Hi Brad,

Are you an industrial design major? I am currently doing a master's in ID, with the intention of designing climbing/highlining/outdoor gear in my future.

Just took the survey. Here's the issue I see-- the biggest reason to climb in the cold is that your skin has a higher coefficient of friction against the rock when it's cold. Interview some double digit boulderers, and they will likely have certain conditions they like for sending on certain types of rock. They go out and suffer in the cold just  to get the right temp on the rock-skin contact point. This seems to be biggest in bouldering, but elite climbers in other disciplines also pay attention to temps. Personally, when I climb in the cold it's because I want to climb and it happens to be cold, just like when I climb in the heat it's because I want to climb and it happens to be hot. I don't like being cold, but the one upside is better friction with my skin. (I'm more focussed on long routes/alpine climbing, but I've known some pretty fanatical boulderers.)

Your proposed device heats the one surface of your body which would benefit from being cold. Now, I get cold hands and feet very easily, so I understand the motivation to build a hand warmer for climbers.

Integrating heat and chalk would be a no-go for me. What if I want to do one but not the other? I'm a bit particular about chalking up right before I touch the rock, and minimizing chalk on myself/gear. The time I want chalk is when I'm actively climbing, and when I want to warm my hands is when I'm belaying/eating/resting/etc.

I'm guessing you are targeting climbers who go cragging or bouldering in the cold, rather than alpine/backcountry climbing. I would say that between bouldering, single pitch cragging and multipitch climbing the user needs and product requirements change drastically, so if you haven't yet, I would clearly define who my target user is.

I've never done heat packs in the chalk bag. If I can't feel my hands, I put them inside my puffy in my armpits until I can feel them again.

Lastly, if I were tasked with this issue, I would consider heated wearables. I think there could be some interesting ideas around pinpointing where heat is applied, say near blood vessels that are close to the skin. I personally like low tech solutions, and maybe I'd design a neoprene pouch to hold a disposable chemical hand warmer on the inside of each wrist. Perhaps some research in the physiology of heat loss could direct the solution. 

I hope that this doesn't read too harshly, I don't mean it that way and tone is lost in text. I am familiar with the struggle to design for niche activities with professors and classmates who don't really understand the application, so I just wanted to share my ideas in case something might help. Also, I'm procrastinating on doing my design homework...need 5 rough models for Monday...

Jonathan
 

Jonathan Croom wrote: the biggest reason to climb in the cold is that your skin has a higher coefficient of friction against the rock when it's cold. 

Cold skin on cold rock can result in some truly horrible friction. I prefer to start with warm hands when I pull onto cold rock.  I also get way more pumped if my fingers are going numb.

This could be a great option for getting tissues warm before pulling onto some small crimpers as well.

Brad, how long does the heat last?

I think it's an interesting idea, but being cheap, I'd probably not buy it for $15. Let us remember that the Hot Forge chalk bag started as a joke.

Glowering wrote: I'd be a lot more likely to complete the survey if I knew what it was about. Liquid chalk?

yes

Jonathan Croom wrote: Hi Brad,

Are you an industrial design major? I am currently doing a master's in ID, with the intention of designing climbing/highlining/outdoor gear in my future.

Just took the survey. Here's the issue I see-- the biggest reason to climb in the cold is that your skin has a higher coefficient of friction against the rock when it's cold. Interview some double digit boulderers, and they will likely have certain conditions they like for sending on certain types of rock. They go out and suffer in the cold just  to get the right temp on the rock-skin contact point. This seems to be biggest in bouldering, but elite climbers in other disciplines also pay attention to temps. Personally, when I climb in the cold it's because I want to climb and it happens to be cold, just like when I climb in the heat it's because I want to climb and it happens to be hot. I don't like being cold, but the one upside is better friction with my skin. (I'm more focussed on long routes/alpine climbing, but I've known some pretty fanatical boulderers.)

Your proposed device heats the one surface of your body which would benefit from being cold. Now, I get cold hands and feet very easily, so I understand the motivation to build a hand warmer for climbers.

Integrating heat and chalk would be a no-go for me. What if I want to do one but not the other? I'm a bit particular about chalking up right before I touch the rock, and minimizing chalk on myself/gear. The time I want chalk is when I'm actively climbing, and when I want to warm my hands is when I'm belaying/eating/resting/etc.

I'm guessing you are targeting climbers who go cragging or bouldering in the cold, rather than alpine/backcountry climbing. I would say that between bouldering, single pitch cragging and multipitch climbing the user needs and product requirements change drastically, so if you haven't yet, I would clearly define who my target user is.

I've never done heat packs in the chalk bag. If I can't feel my hands, I put them inside my puffy in my armpits until I can feel them again.

Lastly, if I were tasked with this issue, I would consider heated wearables. I think there could be some interesting ideas around pinpointing where heat is applied, say near blood vessels that are close to the skin. I personally like low tech solutions, and maybe I'd design a neoprene pouch to hold a disposable chemical hand warmer on the inside of each wrist. Perhaps some research in the physiology of heat loss could direct the solution.

I hope that this doesn't read too harshly, I don't mean it that way and tone is lost in text. I am familiar with the struggle to design for niche activities with professors and classmates who don't really understand the application, so I just wanted to share my ideas in case something might help. Also, I'm procrastinating on doing my design homework...need 5 rough models for Monday...

Jonathan
 

I think part of it depends on where you live. Being from Minnesota, there are really only 4-5 months of the year where you can even feel your hands while climbing, so if you want to climb at all consistently, your hands are going to be numb by the second bolt. Warmers in chalk bags are great, and my favorite option, but this product does make a lot more sense when you put it in the perspective of Minnesota.

Just force yourself to get screamy barfies, then you're "immune" for next go.  Works every time!

Seems interesting

Mike Womack wrote: Just force yourself to get screamy barfies, then you're "immune" for next go.  Works every time!

I've been trying to force this for two winters, I want to experience it but I dunno what I'm doing wrong