Will you avoid buying gear made in China now?

M Mobes wrote:

Leading us in January instead of waiting until March would have saved thousands of lives. Rallies and golf were more important. The worlds greatest businessman shot himself in the foot and changes his story daily. Its really amazing he has so many fan boys.

There have only been a few thousand deaths and we are faring better than other western countries. I am not a fan but I think the orange man bad narrative is being a little dishonest here. The modeling was also pretty crap back then so you can't really just close the economy at any possible indication of something going wrong.

Oracle EBS/cloud

Right. That would have been a gravy train for sure. Sorry to hear your opportunity vanished like that. Brutal. Is it gone or just delayed? Probably tbd, like everything else in the  business world?

Connor Dobson wrote:

There have only been a few thousand deaths and we are faring better than other western countries. I am not a fan but I think the orange man bad narrative is being a little dishonest here. The modeling was also pretty crap back then so you can't really just close the economy at any possible indication of something going wrong.

Cant or shouldn't?

Connor Dobson wrote:

There have only been a few thousand deaths 

What do people with this frame of mind do for a living? How old are you? What’s your family structure? I just can’t get past saying that it’s ok for people to get real sick and die. “Only  a few thousand” of them. 

Why are we not more pissed that the stimulus checks haven’t come in? Why aren’t we more pissed that we’re still bogged down by student debt? 
Instead we debate about if we should climb. 

B P wrote:

What do people with this frame of mind do for a living? How old are you? What’s your family structure? I just can’t get past saying that it’s ok for people to get real sick and die. “Only  a few thousand” of them. 

Doesn't matter what is said, through their actions, most Americans have shown time and time again that they simply do not care if *millions* continue to needlessly suffer and die. 

Cherokee Nunes wrote: Right. That would have been a gravy train for sure. Sorry to hear your opportunity vanished like that. Brutal. Is it gone or just delayed? Probably tbd, like everything else in the  business world?

Brutal, really? Lets have some perspective here. 

Troll in the Dungeon ! wrote:

Doesn't matter what is said, through their actions, most Americans have shown time and time again that they simply do not care if *millions* continue to needlessly suffer and die. 

Tell me troll, what actions do you speak of? 

Troll in the Dungeon ! wrote:

Doesn't matter what is said, through their actions, most Americans have shown time and time again that they simply do not care if *millions* continue to needlessly suffer and die. 

most humans*

The world is a big cruel place, it's difficult enough to just keep you and your family out of needless suffering. It's not that people simply don't care, it's that most people aren't infinite emotional reservoirs of caring, and IMHO the best we can all do is to care for the people we know, and sure if there's some left over care for the 7.8 billion strangers in the world then great.

I just found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index#World_Giving_Index_rankings - maybe those evil Americans ain't so bad eh.

The thing about your post that sort of irks me is that we're wasting time on MP in this thread. We could be trying to help people who are needlessly suffering, but we prioritized this.
What does that say about you and me?

This is some hardcore climbing politics

B P wrote:

What do people with this frame of mind do for a living? How old are you? What’s your family structure? I just can’t get past saying that it’s ok for people to get real sick and die. “Only  a few thousand” of them. 

Why are we not more pissed that the stimulus checks haven’t come in? Why aren’t we more pissed that we’re still bogged down by student debt? 
Instead we debate about if we should climb. 

The frame of mind of not freaking out over everything? I'm an engineer so I like to try to use data to inform my beliefs and thinking. Automobile accidents in the US killed 120 people per million last year. So far covid is at 60. You don't see people getting up in arms about how we should ban cars.

I am not saying shelter in place was not the correct course of action but let's keep a little bit of perspective. You also realize that if people are expected to live 85 years, that means the deathrate should be around 11800/1M. This is not the end of the world, and I'd much rather be in the US than italy/France/Spain/UK at this moment when looking at the stats.

Everyone will die at some point. Get over yourself and try to enjoy your time here. 

Also if you think that we don't live in the best time in the world (least amount of poverty and hunger, most technology, generally living long, generally the most peaceful time ever) you need to read a history book my friend. Also trying to label people you don't agree with as having no moral integrity is such a shitty and disingenuous argument tactic and takes away from your point for anyone who wants to critically think.

B P wrote:

What do people with this frame of mind do for a living? How old are you? What’s your family structure? I just can’t get past saying that it’s ok for people to get real sick and die. “Only  a few thousand” of them. 

I must have missed the part where he said it's okay for people to get real sick and die.

Listen, you can be upset that people are dying - I know I am - but the man was just stating reality, that some people are going to die. If you're this enraged by coronavirus then you haven't been paying attention, heart disease alone kills more than half a million people per year in America. Getting angry at people on a mountainproject thread isn't going to change how many people heart disease will kill, nor coronavirus.

The next time someone explains reality to you, take a second to think about it instead of saying useless stuff like "What do people with this frame of mind do for a living? How old are you? What’s your family structure? I just can’t get past saying that it’s ok for people to get real sick and die"; that's just being a jerk for no reason.

The tide is turning...

Connor Dobson wrote: Automobile accidents in the US killed 120 people per million last year. So far covid is at 60. You don't see people getting up in arms about how we should ban cars.

David Skudra wrote:

... heart disease alone kills more than half a million people per year in America.

This is a specious false equivalence. Automobile accident and heart disease deaths aren't increasing exponentially, nor are they contagious.

Yesterday we surpassed 2000 deaths per day. Assuming a starting point of 20500 deaths - about what it was yesterday - a rate of 2000/day will give you over 78000 deaths in 30 days. Quite a number of states won't hit their peak rate for another 2-3 weeks.

Marc801 C wrote:
This is a specious false equivalence. Automobile accident and heart disease deaths aren't increasing exponentially, nor are they contagious.

You're just taking my comments out of context, all I'm saying it that death is a reality we face every day, and that we can't be getting emotional and attacking people online for not getting as outraged as you (which B P did, not you). I'm not downplaying the severity of covid, just merely identifying that the time to get angry about death that is entirely preventable (heart disease - obesity) was around long before covid - and that attacking people online is unnecessary. Thanks for the graph.

Connor Dobson wrote: Also if you think that we don't live in the best time in the world (least amount of poverty and hunger, most technology, generally living long, generally the most peaceful time ever) you need to read a history book my friend. Also trying to label people you don't agree with as having no moral integrity is such a shitty and disingenuous argument tactic and takes away from your point for anyone who wants to critically think.

Well Connor, for a succinct reply to both of your post and the dude who responded fed to me before you-

Please explain reality to me. I’ll give you a ring tomorrow night and we can discuss whether I should wear a PAPR for -12 hours tomorrowOr An N-95. For an RN in Washington I have it very good right now, but I still lose sleep over it. I ask about family structure because if anyone is of any at risk populations,  I can’t imagine saying hey it’s ok. Are you really so removed from any of this that you don’t have a diabetic uncle or an obese sister-in-law or someone that may not make the best life choices but doesn’t necessarily deserve a death sentence? Are your parents 30 and running triathlons in between PhD’s?Exactly. Doubt it

B P wrote:

Tell me troll, what actions do you speak of? 

Omega Pacific - USA made climbing gear - out of business.

Black Diamond - Used to make in USA -Utah and Oregon now making in like Taiwan

Metolius - Some articles are made in USA but much of it will shift to overseas.

Misty Mountain - Harnesses made in NC - I have the Cadillac

Blue Water Ropes - Made in USA

Sterling Ropes - Made in USA

CMI - Climbing Gear

Just a few, here is the link I credit the info too.

https://www.americangearguide.com/american-made-directory/climbing-gear-made-in-usa/  

Aside from all the politics and history of atrocities, I'm not going down that road because clash of civilizations equal out each other over the course of human history so I feel it a bit uneducated to play the blame game.  I am going to offer some more strategic reasons for buying in the USA, due to my 20 years in the military I will tell you hands down conflict will never end. If you want to PM me I will have that conversation. As a Vet I don't wrap myself if the flag either. America is not perfect. It has however, the best chance to become a very respectable country, in my humble opinion.

Back to the point. Why buy in the USA? Because we need to make things as a country to be able to have a stable and robust economy. Hows does rock climbing play into that? Well these companies make money right? Well we want them to hire US workers for one and two we want them to produce in the USA for purposes of control, meaning US dollars going back into US hands.

When a company moves to the CCP controlled economy of China, the company eventuality is leveraged out of its business. This happens through trade theft and digital theft etc copyright infringement. This isn't new. The Chinese CCP have been in in cohorts with our companies like Apple, GM, 3M, Large Manufacturers, and of course US politicians and lobby groups i.e. Chamber of Commerce .  

This was aided by our own corrupt government R's and D's = Uniparty - yeah thought it was cool to be Left or Right wing - your not really on a side just a useful idiot. How was China aided? First it was the WTO then they soon flew in under NAFTA - they use loopholes through Canada and Mexico.

Okay you might say well why would a company do that. Eventually won't they loose the company? Yep but it won't matter because the share holders and the execs will make millions of dollars and the blue collar worker along with the consumer are the only ones that lose. Guess who buys stock in the new CCP company? Hint its not the machinist or the CAM builder from Black Diamond.

The only way to even try and combat this it to buy local and buy 100% made in USA. This gives us an advantage - local level - National level we need to protect our US Companies and workers with tariffs and penalties i.e. you want to move your production to China its gonna cost you a sin tax for the use of slave labor and a tariff so why bother. Make it painful enough that they won't want to go over there.  

1. We buy from responsible companies that hire and take care of their people, the environment, etc. etc.

2. Those owners then know who their consumers are and if they don't get greedy (tariffs actually help this) will stay honest to their products - Think dog food made in China remember that one?

3. The items will cost more but that is a good time to think about minimizing - less stuff. My Misty Mountain harness was probably double a BD harness. The quality is unmatched and I know where the money went.

4. The more a company makes and sells its products in the US the more likely they are to give to politicians who are not going to sell us down the river. I know I despise lobbying but its what we have and until enough of us stand up and put a stop to corporate lobbying, most of what I am relaying here is a pipe dream.

Thanks for reading.

Dan - A small business owner.

 

B P wrote:

Well Connor, for a succinct reply to both of your post and the dude who responded fed to me before you-

Please explain reality to me. I’ll give you a ring tomorrow night and we can discuss whether I should wear a PAPR for -12 hours tomorrowOr An N-95. For an RN in Washington I have it very good right now, but I still lose sleep over it. I ask about family structure because if anyone is of any at risk populations,  I can’t imagine saying hey it’s ok. Are you really so removed from any of this that you don’t have a diabetic uncle or an obese sister-in-law or someone that may not make the best life choices but doesn’t necessarily deserve a death sentence? Are your parents 30 and running triathlons in between PhD’s?Exactly. Doubt it

I have people in my life in at risk populations. Doesn't change reality or what can reasonably done in response at this point. Again with the moral attacks insinuating I want people to die. It's disgusting that you are trying to say I'm advocating for that when all I've said so far is "we haven't had it as bad as other countries and the response wasn't worse than other countries".