Berkeley Ironworks Training Facility Petition

Karl Walters wrote: So again, they did things for free that they actually didn't have to do anything for minus post on social media and they benefited from it by gaining an image boost. I'm talking about re-directing membership revenue to things members want.  It's not as easy as just "going elsewhere" as you could in many major cities. Also, it's the Bay Area- they can't not do that kind of publicity work.

So your opinion seems to be that the big problem is diversity and inclusion. I can see that although it's funny that you are advocating for that so strongly when you aren't a member of said groups, however, it doesn't take revenue to do.  Touchstone staff members don't have to watch over the meetups all they have to do is have the gyms open.  I don't think this is remotely relevant to what I am discussing in this thread.

Yes, I haven't heard any complaints in person. I did see one in the thread.  I have actually yet to see Touchstone say anyone complained and citing the space as a post hoc benefit. The comp team trains mostly from 4-6 and are finishing by the time the 5PM work crowd gets there. I used to go there from 5 onwards and never had an issue with them and crowding, but always with adults and crowding.

Bolding mine. As a straight white man who has been surrounded by straight white men for the 20 years I've been climbing, I love walking into Dogpatch and seeing Queer Crush or Brown Ascenders at their table in the front. Dogpatch would probably make a lot more running "Tech networking" nights (when else can you spot Marc Andreessen or spray down Vinod Khosla?!) or "Meet a bro!" mixers.

I think your issue is that you're conflating "things members want" or "things the business needs" with "things I want". Maybe the new training area is a launching pad for a more general after-school program? Maybe they're expanding the team with the new space? Maybe they're renting it out to 3rd party teams to use? Maybe they're using it as a setter training area? Maybe they're opening it up in a limited fashion to build more out? Maybe they're building new cracks out of granite slabs (RIP Boston Rock Gym)? Maybe their insurance is lower with kids training in a designated area? Maybe they want to use it as a designated comp space?

Please don't interpret what I said that I do not think such groups are warranted nor appreciate them. I think that the group activities, which are free, are great, however, they are not the same as what I was advocating for nor is the logic the same.  My original sentiment was that it was surprising for Touchstone not to hold such events since this is a very diverse area and a not-very-diverse sport and it costs nothing to do and only gains them a favorable image.

It's not just me that wants expanded hours. Some other random person created a petition. Every climber that I know personally was bummed to hear about the reduced hours. Several that could switch gyms did.  They're using the facility for none of the things you mentioned except for team coaching and they could allow members access just like almost every other gym with similar facilities does.  The rest was just details about how Touchstone repeatedly fails to actually deliver anything members ask for (every example I cited involved multiple people asking them for X or to do Y often at zero or little cost to them).  There is a much larger group of people then you would likely think who actually do like using said facilities and are more oriented towards training with their time at the gym than simply just doing what is in front of them. So much that again, almost every modern gym in the country has provided things such as functioning hangboard/pulley setups and training boards. Instead Touchstone brews beer, brands shirts, and buys weighlifting platforms.

I think this is going to just go in circles and waste time. I look forward to the day when I no longer have to pay Touchstone and remain disappointed in their decision. As I said the petition likely won't solve it, but one thing I've noticed in the Bay Area it's that everyone loves to complain, but no one wants to do anything unless it is a widely accepted opinion and someone else has already done all the legwork. My guess is this scenario will end much the same.

Karl Walters wrote: So your opinion seems to be that the big problem is diversity and inclusion. 

Nope, wrong again. I personally don't think there's a problem with Touchstone. A climbing gym is crowded and expensive in a crowded and expensive area of the country; I fail to see the issue and am confused by the lamenting and gnashing of teeth. If I have a problem, it's with privileged customers thinking that A gym is somehow THEIR gym. Learning to support others and share your surroundings even if you get nothing from that support and sharing is kind of what communities are made of.  

Karl Walters wrote:I can see that, although it's funny that you are advocating for that so strongly when you aren't a member of said groups, 

As a queer climber, I might expect some to think I would be offended that you assumed I wasn't part of any of said group, but I understand, I pass, so it goes with the territory. (Though Queer Crush advocates for allies just as much as LGBTQ+ so that means you could consider yourself a part of the group as well from what you've posted) 

I will say it's telling, not that you didn't know I was a member of one of those groups, but that you somehow think it's funny that someone who wasn't part of a group would advocate for that group they're not part of. You don't think that way of thinking is a bit problematic? (Don't worry, it's a rhetorical question.)

So I guess I have two things I consider big problems, so it goes. It's been fun, but I'm going to bow out now as neither of us is going to be convinced by the other. 

Funny is the wrong word. I do think sometimes there is a tendency to speak for others about their interests as a surrogate or advocate and/or subtly imply that they are not capable of doing the same themselves. This conversation is digressing considerably and I apologize for being presumptive.  I entered this thread just to state my point of view and that of people I know and nothing meaningful will come of it.

I agree with some of the harsh sentiments towards Touchstone in this thread. I have sent them emails in the past to ask for transparency about where the additional fees were going, to point out inconsistencies with how different gyms in their "family" are managed, and to propose several ideas on how they could support the community in San Jose/the South Bay. Imagine if the only Touchstone gym within 50 miles of where you live is The Studio in San Jose...they're probably closing it soon anyhow.

I am jealous of those with more than two Touchstone gyms at their doorstep. I haven't had a Touchstone membership in over 2 1/2 years and don't plan to again. I don't think it's worth it if your only easily accessible gym in that system is The Studio and you aren't a student. All my friends have long switched to Planet Granite or The Peak in Fremont.

Good luck with your petition.

just an FYI to everyone-- an update on the massive gym touchstone is building in oakland, a few miles from both the great western gym and ironworks:

https://touchstoneclimbing.com/big-news-for-west-oakland-pacific-pipe-update/

2x bigger than any other touchstone gym
4 different system boards
etc...

Show The Studio some love.  

PP will be sick and have all the amenities I would want to use. I still feel the same way about the BIW training area, but look forward to it! Hopefully parking is sorted.

Tanner Orland wrote: Show The Studio some love.  

I've asked. Friends of mine have asked. You can try asking. Touchstone doesn't care. Word on the street is the lease ends soon for The Studio and all signs point to them not planning to renew... hence, them doing the bare minimum and the lack of investment into the gym over the years. Serving the South Bay community is not on their radar. As far as I know the Touchstone setting team never even comes to San Jose - San Jose has their own small group of setters and they seem to struggle to retain people that can set fun/challenging routes. That's why routes stay up for almost 4 months, sometimes even longer (maybe things are better now?).

It's a real shame. We had a great community of climbers years ago - fun and strong, a large group of people chasing outdoor objectives, less ego than in other gyms, etc. -  but many have since left as it became obvious The Studio would never see similar improvements or receive the caliber of equipment the other gyms seem to have. Oh well. 

If you need anyone to climb outside with, Tanner, I'm down.

carla rosa wrote:

I've asked. Friends of mine have asked. You can try asking. Touchstone doesn't care. Word on the street is the lease ends soon for The Studio and all signs point to them not planning to renew... hence, them doing the bare minimum and the lack of investment into the gym over the years. Serving the South Bay community is not on their radar. As far as I know the Touchstone setting team never even comes to San Jose - San Jose has their own small group of setters and they seem to struggle to retain people that can set fun/challenging routes. That's why routes stay up for almost 4 months, sometimes even more (maybe things are better now?).

It's a real shame. We had a great community of climbers years ago - fun and strong, a large group of people chasing outdoor objectives, less ego than in other gyms, etc. -  but many have since left as it became obvious The Studio would never see similar improvements or receive the caliber of equipment the other gyms seems to have. Oh well. 

If you need anyone to climb outside with, Tanner, I'm down.

That's sad news. Then how about all the members in south bay. 

If it's true. I hope PG could take the place. 

carla rosa wrote:

I've asked. Friends of mine have asked. You can try asking. Touchstone doesn't care. Word on the street is the lease ends soon for The Studio and all signs point to them not planning to renew... hence, them doing the bare minimum and the lack of investment into the gym over the years. Serving the South Bay community is not on their radar. As far as I know the Touchstone setting team never even comes to San Jose - San Jose has their own small group of setters and they seem to struggle to retain people that can set fun/challenging routes. That's why routes stay up for almost 4 months, sometimes even longer (maybe things are better now?).

It's a real shame. We had a great community of climbers years ago - fun and strong, a large group of people chasing outdoor objectives, less ego than in other gyms, etc. -  but many have since left as it became obvious The Studio would never see similar improvements or receive the caliber of equipment the other gyms seem to have. Oh well. 

If you need anyone to climb outside with, Tanner, I'm down.

I've been climbing at The Studio for about 4 years now and have seen some decent improvements after a change in management about a year ago.  It still has a small, strong community, but the gym definitely lacks in luster in comparison to the newer gyms that are being built and East bay is getting another, super gym/training facility.  I just hope that if the rumors are true about not resigning the lease, they let us know soon!  

I am also always down to share a belay!

PG has all the training equipment AND lets adults use it all hours! Touchstone clearly can't compete with such luxuries

Naiqing Song wrote:

That's sad news. Then how about all the members in south bay. 

If it's true. I hope PG could take the place. 

 I believe PG is opening a new gym in the south bay as well. That might make pg the best option if you are in the south bay.