Removing Vasodilator death block tomorrow

Jon Hillis wrote:

Pretty sure OP did climb the route...

He should update his otherwise very current ticklist and remove the route from his "To Do" list.  

Because otherwise it might appear to people like me that he went up there and did nothing but hangdogged it for the instagram photo - that he did curiously manage to update the site with to keep things current - then started a humble-spray thread about all the good he was going to do to 'fix' the route.

Bill Schick wrote:

Because otherwise it might appear to people like me that he went up there and did nothing but hangdogged it for the instagram photo - that he did curiously manage to update the site with to keep things current - then started a humble-spray thread about all the good he was going to do to 'fix' the route.

Nailed it

Tradiban wrote:

Lol! #trolled

See ya next time sucker. Tradiban wins again!

...

Lol it’s like you think you invented “Heads, I win.  Tails, you lose”.

Oh my goodness, it sounds like the route has been ruined! What a horrible ending to this saga which no one could have possibly predicted.

I am completely baffled by all of the people on here complaining about a "ruined route". If the block came off with a small pry, then whoever removed it did everyone a favor. Especially since they (presumably) took steps to keep the roadway below safe.

If you are upset because it made the route harder, then you need an ego check.

If you think bolting a GRANITE block in place on an otherwise solid single pitch route would be worthwhile, then you should have already asked the FA and gone out to do it.

Ranting about community consensus isn't helping anyone either. Blocks get trundled on most crags ALL THE TIME. This block wasn't even a full body length; it was big enough to kill somebody, and it made - what - a couple moves more difficult?

STOP WHINING

David Deville wrote: I am completely baffled by all of the people on here complaining about a "ruined route". If the block came off with a small pry, then whoever removed it did everyone a favor. Especially since they (presumably) took steps to keep the roadway below safe.

If you are upset because it made the route harder, then you need an ego check.

If you think bolting a GRANITE block in place on an otherwise solid single pitch route would be worthwhile, then you should have already asked the FA and gone out to do it.

Ranting about community consensus isn't helping anyone either. Blocks get trundled on most crags ALL THE TIME. This block wasn't even a full body length; it was big enough to kill somebody, and it made - what - a couple moves more difficult?

STOP WHINING

Please refer to my previous post:

MP users are couch climbers, bolt choppers, curmudgeons, Edit: EXPERTS FOR ALL CLIMBING AREAS, and wants everyone to get hurt because they didn't have XYZ back in their day so we shouldn't either (even though some routes have a history of injuries).  

I am thoroughly impressed with the number of people commenting on this thread who have not climbed the route. See the "Archangel" comments section if you want to know how silly commenting on a route you haven't or have no ability to climb makes you out to be. You can join the proud ranks of those MP users.

michalm wrote: Jonathan and others, it seems like a good idea to actually acquire community consensus on such a well-appreciated route.

I think you meant to say "acquire 5.13a and above climber consensus".

It seems sensible to have a discussion with those who actually climb or will climb a route, wouldn't you agree? Those who have no stake in the matter don't need to contribute to every discussion.

There doesn't need to be any discussion about removing a relatively insignificant piece of loose rock from a cliff face other than how to do so safely. Demanding community consensus (with climbing ability restrictions) will only bring gridlock and access restrictions. 

David Deville wrote:Demanding community consensus (with climbing ability restrictions) will only bring gridlock and access restrictions. 

This statement doesn't make any sense. As a courtesy to those who are otherwise inconvenienced to read your comments, consider limiting your contributions to discussions about routes geographically and otherwise relevant to you, and I will do the same. I don't impose my opinion on your local climbing areas in Flagstaff.

Nevertheless, the deed has been done. I simply observe how absurd it is that many of the comments on this thread are from people whom this route in no way affects, including the absolute nonsense in the following post.

michalm wrote:

This doesn't make any sense. Consider limiting your contributions to discussions about routes geographically and otherwise relevant to you, and I will do the same. I don't impose my opinion on your local climbing areas in Flagstaff.

Nevertheless, the deed has been done. I was simply observing how absurd it is that many of the comments on this thread are from people whom this route in no way affects.

I don't think you know how forums work... I can sit here in beautiful AZ and hand down judgement on your chossy little crags in where ever this route is. the beauty of capitalism

michalm wrote:

This statement doesn't make any sense. As a courtesy to those who are otherwise inconvenienced to read your comments, consider limiting your contributions to discussions about routes geographically and otherwise relevant to you, and I will do the same. I don't impose my opinion on your local climbing areas in Flagstaff.

Nevertheless, the deed has been done. I simply observe how absurd it is that many of the comments on this thread are from people whom this route in no way affects, including the absolute nonsense in the following post.

Dude, you are completely free to impose your opinion on my local climbing areas. Also, there is no reason you need to listen to anything I have to say. If you are so upset by all of this then I think you should haul that block back up there and bolt it in place yourself.

michalm wrote: I am thoroughly impressed with the number of people commenting on this thread who have not climbed the route. See the "Archangel" comments section if you want to know how silly commenting on a route you haven't or have no ability to climb makes you out to be. You can join the proud ranks of those MP users.

Man, I sure enjoyed reading that Archangel thread. What a classic!

I've climbed this route. Almost certainly won't climb it again. I say dynamite the whole cliff.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: I've climbed this route. Almost certainly won't climb it again. I say dynamite the whole cliff.

You say that about all your old projects dont you?

M Mobes wrote:

You say that about all your old projects dont you?

Should I not?

Jonathan Awerbuch wrote: Thanks Brandon. I've just sent Mark a message. I didn't know BCC is the organization to deal with. Really glad to have some informed commentary here. My assessment was that folks have been complaining about it for several years, and no one has said "Oh, I know what I'm talking about, it's safe". My guess is it's just a matter of time, and I don't know how anyone could be have a life-safety level of confidence that it's solid.

I haven't found beta to avoid the block, so it seems super dangerous to me. My feeling was: no one else  has stepped up, and it's past time.

In case the comments on this thread have mislead the public - the BCC had nothing to do with the removal of 'the Vasodilator Death Block'.