Permadraws at sandrock

I'd like to put a permadraw on Super Grover on my next trip, but I'm not sure about the ethics or whatever.  

Just hang 'em. It'll be "an experiment". 

I see no reason that climb needs any permadraws. Regardless, I would first discuss any placement or replacement of fixed gear at Sand Rock with the Southeastern Climbers Coalition. They are currently performing rebolting at the park in coordination with the park management. I usually just email them at info@seclimbers.org.

Chuck Parks wrote: I see no reason that climb needs any permadraws. Regardless, I would first discuss any placement or replacement of fixed gear at Sand Rock with the Southeastern Climbers Coalition. They are currently performing rebolting at the park in coordination with the park management. I usually just email them at info@seclimbers.org.

Thanks chuck

Chuck Parks wrote: I see no reason that climb needs any permadraws. Regardless, I would first discuss any placement or replacement of fixed gear at Sand Rock with the Southeastern Climbers Coalition. They are currently performing rebolting at the park in coordination with the park management. I usually just email them at info@seclimbers.org.

So, history shows a lot of retro bolting at Sand Rock. While we took out a bunch in '96, and Mikey took out a bunch of Johnny's BS in the early 2000s, I would have to assume that since Johnny is still there and those of us cared about such things aren't that there are today any number of retros. Question: Is the SCC rebolting retros? That would be pretty pathetic, but, a lot of what is going down in the SE these days is. 

To the OP: There are no ethics at Sand Rock, and have not been for 25 years.

Ben Lyon wrote: Just hang 'em. It'll be "an experiment". 

And the quote of the day goes to...Ben Lyon!

Jim Corbett wrote:

So, history shows a lot of retro bolting at Sand Rock. While we took out a bunch in '96, and Mikey took out a bunch of Johnny's BS in the early 2000s, I would have to assume that since Johnny is still there and those of us cared about such things aren't that there are today any number of retros. Question: Is the SCC rebolting retros? That would be pretty pathetic, but, a lot of what is going down in the SE these days is. 

To the OP: There are no ethics at Sand Rock, and have not been for 25 years.

Cool, thanks.  I don't go there too often, so I wasn't sure

Cole Metzger wrote:

Cool, thanks.  I don't go there too often, so I wasn't sure

If you don't go there often, maybe you shouldn't be the person to install a permadraw...

Brad Caldwell wrote:

If you don't go there often, maybe you shouldn't be the person to install a permadraw...

After trying Super Grover I may be there some more.

Without debating whether permadraws are the next crisis to strike the stoke of southeastern hardmen everywhere, no, Super Grover doesn’t need a perma.  Just clip after doing the moves like everyone else.  Is it scary, possible.  Is it going to kill you, no. If anything, it doesn’t need a permadraw to keep the southeastern chest thumping hardmen of olden times quiet.  Please, for all of our sanity, don’t do it.

Other than a bunch of hardasses talking about how it's not needed because whatever is there a legal or environmental reason not to?  Like seriously? So many people bail off, why not?

If you need to top rope the crux, then why don’t you just top rope the route?

Just at the third....

If you place a perma on that route, it will be gone within the week.

A bail biner is standard practice; why not just leave one of those if you can't finish?

Alternately, you could just scramble up the left side of the formation and drop a top rope on the neighboring climb Windows. You can easily pendulum over and grab gear off the bottom half of Super Grover, leaving nothing behind.

Nothing like people neutering routes to bring it down to their bail level...