More Tensleep Drama

10Z18.

That any better??   

Where can I get my 10Z18 shirt? Gluey's wreck ranch sell them yet?

I've been following this thread on and off, are there any other offenders besides Louie? Has Louie ever offered an explanation to justify his actions? I'm really curious his method of thinking.

ZZZZZZZZZZ

Tradiban wrote: I've been following this thread on and off, are there any other offenders besides Louie? Has Louie ever offered an explanation to justify his actions? I'm really curious his method of thinking.

Dude, Louie just sporadically posts some well spoken PC, every time there is a major update, on Facebook and that’s it. He’s not once apologized or admitted to drilling (even though it’s undeniable) and has not donated, at least public ally, a single dollar from his guidebook back to the BCC. Not that that would be anymore beneficial seeing as Val and, seemingly, the BCC are supporting him more financially than he deserves. At least Snyder uses his income from his Rakkup guide to develop higher up on the area...away from drama. 

J T wrote:

Dude, Louie just sporadically posts some well spoken PC, every time there is a major update, on Facebook and that’s it. He’s not once apologized or admitted to drilling (even though it’s undeniable) and has not donated, at least public ally, a single dollar from his guidebook back to the BCC. Not that that would be anymore beneficial seeing as Val and, seemingly, the BCC are supporting him more financially than he deserves. At least Snyder uses his income from his Rakkup guide to develop higher up on the area...away from drama. 

I don't get this money angle either. No one is under any obligation to donate anything. 

Do you think his motivation for manufacturing routes is mammon based?

It's a classic case of self righteousness. If any of these "choppers" have ever places a bolt,cleaned a route or pried off a flake who are they to say when and where the rock should be altered. It should be a community decision. John Bacher would have chopped their bolts.
As I understand it they went against a community decision when they took this action.

Well then, you DON'T understand it Dougy.

Tradiban wrote: I've been following this thread on and off, are there any other offenders besides Louie? 

Yes, there are plenty of other chippers and manufacturers who have put up routes at Xzzz, some of whom are well-known around the nation for putting up very manufactured routes at otherwise non-chipping areas. But for some reason they've escaped the ire of this "gang of 18."

Pnelson wrote:

Yes, there are plenty of other chippers and manufacturers who have put up routes at Xzzz, some of whom are well-known around the nation for putting up very manufactured routes at otherwise non-chipping areas. But for some reason they've escaped the ire of this "gang of 18."

Who are they? Not fair to single Louie out.

Tradiban wrote:

Who are they? Not fair to single Louie out.

What do you think the most manufactured route at the RRG is?

Duuno, what is the most manufactured climb at RRG?  Does it have 20+ blatently drilled and/or glued hds on it or a fucking sanblasted crack?

Pnelson wrote:

Yes, there are plenty of other chippers and manufacturers who have put up routes at Xzzz, some of whom are well-known around the nation for putting up very manufactured routes at otherwise non-chipping areas. But for some reason they've escaped the ire of this "gang of 18."

What are you talking about dude?! The reason Louie is the target is because chopping hasn’t been in issue/prevalent/common/etc. in nearly 10 years. 

The individuals who have also manufactured routes (that I can only assume are “well known around the nation” as you claim) have not manufactured routes in 5+ years and the only one of which who has done so recently has stopped since being confronted. I don’t remember the last route KW put up in Ten Sleep, but I’m pretty sure it was around 5 years ago (correct me if I’m wrong though)

I’m really interested to see where your RRG developer comparison goes as Thug Life was put up almost a decade ago and KW already has/had his fair share of drama for manufacturing. 

Deez Nuts wrote: Duuno, what is the most manufactured climb at RRG?  Does it have 20+ blatently drilled and/or glued hds on it or a fucking sanblasted crack?

If it’s the one I believe he’s referring to them it has around (maybe a bit less) 20 chipped/glued holds, most of which can be skipped apparently, which makes it similar to TS’s situation I guess....except that was done in 2010/11 not presently.  

Not sandblasted though 

Best limestone climbing in the US
Clark Mountain....manufactured routes
VRG....manufactured routes
Rifle....manufactured routes
Mt Charleston....manufactured routes

Jon W wrote: How do you get a compressor, sand and the rest of the equipment up to the crag to sand blast a crack. I've done a fair amount of sandblasting and the equipment is very heavy as well as the sand. doesn't seem feasible.

Well Cesari Maestri got one up Cerro Torre, so I would imagine it would be feasible to get one up to a Ten Sleep crag...

People who chip routes have too much free time.

People who gleefully antagonize people who chip routes also have too much free time.

Galldang.

Pretty sure I know KW. Nice guy, but I have certainly complained about his heavy gluing in one area he frequented in the early 00's. even though the rock in question sucks and the routes were fun. Pulling on golfball sized cobbles at 30 degrees off horizontal warrants a little glue IMO, but I don't like grabbing handfuls of glue while climbing outside.

Just wish people would see through the false equivalence bullshit. Those pockets that were shown upthread should piss any climber off. If KW did something similar at RRG he should be ashamed. The fact that Gluey's wife joined BCC and BCC likely knew exactly what he was doing seems incredibly shady.

Maybe if there motives/ignorance were better explained? But I know Gluey's work from growing up in socal and from what I understand he was pretty much run out of there for the same shit, so ignorance isn't very likely.

Jon W wrote: What for?

BTW, we're talking about at least 500lbs for a compressor that will move the volume of air and supply the pressure needed. And those go through a 100lbs of sand in a few minutes. Plus electricity. If gas powered its pushing 1000 lbs for the air compressor.

Just curious.

Ever hear of the compressor route dude?

Its only one of the greatest bit of climbing bs of all time

caughtinside wrote:

I’m not sure where you got the understanding that he was “run out of SoCal.” He was an active route developer there for at least 20 years. 

I talked to a well travelled friend yesterday about the whole tensleep thing. He said he climbed the funky town routes last summer and while there were some obviously manufactured holds, “it was nowhere near as bad as the internet lynch mob would have you believe.”

This.

The climbing "community" has always had self-righteous fucks (Like me!) who think they know better than everyone else, Louie did his thing which wasn't totally out of line with their thing but for whatever petty reason "they" didn't like him and sprayed endless dramatized bullshit to try and prove themselves right.

However, it doesn't really matter who did what, sport climbing in general is a destructive force, to rock, to nature, to the "community", and all this is just your comeuppance.