Needles or Whitney Portal for a short trip?

Two out-of-towners planning to climb in CA from 7/11-7/14.  Considering either Whitney Portal or The Needles - Whitney Portal seems very cool but very crowded.  Since we booked the trip quite recently we have no reservations for camping at WP, which may be a hindrance (how's the walk-up situation?).  Wonder what the MP community would advise, here's our itinerary:

Wed 7/10: Arrive in Vegas in the evening
Thurs: Drive 4-6 hours to WP or Needles, maybe climb if there's time
Fri: Climb
Sat: Climb
Sunday: Maybe climb in AM 1-2 pitches if we're in WP and can access a crag quickly, partner's flight is out of Vegas at 8:30 pm.

We both lead 10+/11a on gear, plenty of multi-pitch and alpine rock experience.  Would be great to do something on Russell but with the late booking of the trip that seems impossible with the permit situation.  So pondering if we should go to Whitney Portal anyway and crag/do multi-pitch there or head to Needles instead.  Or if there's another area I'm not considering, feel free to recommend.

Cheers.

Ryan Nelling wrote: .. Would be great to do something on Russell but with the late booking of the trip that seems impossible with the permit situation.  ...

https://www.recreation.gov/permits/233260

cancellations and no-shows pop up every day.  if you're diligent you'll be able to get a permit for sure.  if you're unable to camp at the whitney portal (hit or miss with getting a walk-up spot) you can always sleep lower for free in the alabama hills.  it'd be too hot during the day down there, but really pleasant for sleeping at night with temps in the high fifties.

Oh snap nice look Brian, that's cool about the permits becoming available.  Thank you.

in terms of climbers on rock routes, whitney portal is never crowded, but the parking and camping is choked with the mt. whitney crowds.

I would go to the needles given the weather, the majority of the portal routes face south and even at 8k can get hot, while the needles have climbs on all aspects

There are 4 walkup overnight permits available, 0800 every day, at the Sierra Center, for the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek.

The Needles is a pretty special place and, since many of the routes climb out on either side of narrow gullies between the formations you often have shady options--important in a California summer. Also since you apparently will be arriving from the near  sea-level regions of the Northeast, the Needles will likely have less acclimatization issues for you than WP.

Also, do you have gear for snow/ice?  The needles are open with no snow, but depending on what you want to do near Whitney there is still substantial snow.

Thanks for the replies.  We do have snow gear if we decide for something on Whitney or Russell.  Sounds like Needles are easier logistically at this point, but if a permit becomes available for the Whitney Zone then that would be pretty special.  Mithral Dihedral on Russell looks pretty stellar, and seems doable coming from sea level if we can score a camping and climbing permit.  Also to folks who have mentioned the walk up permits, this year they don't have those this year: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/passes-permits/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5356869#walkin

Ryan Nelling wrote: .  Also to folks who have mentioned the walk up permits, this year they don't have those this year: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/passes-permits/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5356869#walkin

If you climb on Whitney or Russell, you want a permit for the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek. That is a different permit than the main Mt. Whitney trail.

That link you provided shows that you can still get walk-up permits for the NF of Lone Pine Creek. Walk-up permits are usually issued at 11 AM the day before. so it would be advantageous to be there then, before they are gone.

There was a recent thread about this year's changes in the permit system. if you want to search for it.

This. I disagree with the “R” ratings on all of these climbs. True one must climb 5.11 bolted face to get to the brilliant crack systems found on The Whale but in no way are the climbs R.

Imho you don’t have enuf time to go to the Needles- after all there is a whole Mt Range separating you from it. From my experience it’s like 4-5 extra hours to drive from WP to The Needles and the long hike in and out just adds up.

Camp at A Hills - pm me for info- You can eat in town  and climb early at The A Hills - no it’s not to hot- then blast up to WP around 12-1ish and catching shade at the Whale and climb till dark... go back to A Hills crash out. Repeat next day... if the sun isn’t to bad (pray for clouds- T storms) go early and return early and do more A Hills- when the “9 mile shadows” start the hills cool off quickly. Or if driving North for an hour doesn’t scare you go to Bishop and climb Cardinal Pinnacle.     mountainproject.com/area/10… That’s in the shade and has great crack climbing. Your quickest way back to LV avoids LA and you get to cruze through the desert.

Have fun

Igor Unchained >>> Mithril Dihedral

The Needles are absolutely incredible and with only 3 days, that's where I'd go.

I think both areas are really nice.  The Needles is amazing, with a powerful vibe.  Sounds silly I know but ask anyone who's climbed there.  They'll agree.  On the other hand, Whitney Portal and the prospect of doing Whitney or Russell is just as good in its own way.  Two things to keep in mind for the Needles.  One, you'll need to rent a car that can handle the road in.  Ask for current conditions because it can very greatly from year to year.  Two, you'll probably do alot more walking than if you went to the Portal.  People only think of the trail leading to the lookout, which takes a little less than an hour, but the hike from that point takes about as long and is far more involved.  It's worth it, but the effort adds up over several days.  You'll leave tired but happy.  

abandon moderation wrote:

It's all hashed out in that thread I posted but even there, there's lot's of confusion: the tldr is that

1. you can not get walk in day use permits for anywhere on whitney.

2. You can not get walk in overnight permits for the whitney trail (which you do not want as a climber, anyway)

3. You can get walk in overnight permits for the north fork of lone pine. (4x as James Lee mentions) which is what you want for any technical climbing.

Even so there's no guarantee on the walk-in permit, so definitely have a plan B if you go that route.

Okay so what I'm understanding is, to do a route on Russell I'd want the overnight North Fork Lone Pine permit, available 11 am the day prior for walk-up.  This is doable for us but basically then the entire trip revolves around scoring this permit - we arrive in Vegas 10 pm Wednesday night.  Thursday we'd want to be in line around 10:30 am or sooner for the walk up permit which means a 6 am departure from Vegas that day.  Score the permit hopefully, then do some cragging, and Friday we're hiking in for a Saturday climb.  So then that forces me to consider, is it worth it for such a short trip or should I save something like Russell for the future when I have more time in the region?  This is what Ed and I are debating is how strong is the call of the mountains versus focusing on multi-pitch cragging at either WP or The Needles.

Additional question - if you score a walk-in permit for N Fork Lone Pine, do you also need a day use Whitney permit to climb on Russell?  It seems like you do since Russell is in the Whitney zone.

Ryan Nelling wrote:

Okay so what I'm understanding is, to do a route on Russell I'd want the overnight North Fork Lone Pine permit, available 11 am the day prior for walk-up.  This is doable for us but basically then the entire trip revolves around scoring this permit - we arrive in Vegas 10 pm Wednesday night.  Thursday we'd want to be in line around 10:30 am or sooner for the walk up permit which means a 6 am departure from Vegas that day.  Score the permit hopefully, then do some cragging, and Friday we're hiking in for a Saturday climb.  So then that forces me to consider, is it worth it for such a short trip or should I save something like Russell for the future when I have more time in the region?  This is what Ed and I are debating is how strong is the call of the mountains versus focusing on multi-pitch cragging at either WP or The Needles.

Additional question - if you score a walk-in permit for N Fork Lone Pine, do you also need a day use Whitney permit to climb on Russell?  It seems like you do since Russell is in the Whitney zone.

You don't need a day use permit. Also, those overnight permits are fairly difficult to come by but the snow will help you with that.

Update: we're gonna do the Needles and get 2 full days of climbing in on Friday/Saturday.  Seems like a great place to visit and 2 full days should leave us feeling pretty worked.  Thanks everyone for the input and I'll leave Russell/WP for another trip.