Camp 4 moving to reservation only?

Luke, C4 is expanding, not all the way to swan slab but it will have almost double the amount of 6 person campsites and a shower house when complete.
It’s also on the National Registry of Historic Places. 
Don’t believe the spin.

If it wandt on the NRHP it'd be lost by now.  You DO remember how big a deal, how much work went into that?  How frigging UNLIKELY it was that it happened?  

Lets see, was that NPS that did that thing?  Did they donate the money. the time, the lawyers?

Machiavelli teaches that if you want to destroy a institution in a captive population, you make the institution look unchanged from the outside while doing what you want.  Yeah, Sunnyside is exactly the same as C4... its just gonna be more open and inviting to the General Public.

Dude, you are falling for an original (OLD) con.  It must feel good to be manipulated, so many people go for it.  Easier to swallow the propaganda that way, if you dont resist mentally.   After a while, you cant resist, you just go with the flow...

Rokjox Teleski wrote: If it wandt on the NRHP it'd be lost by now.  You DO remember how big a deal, how much work went into that?  How frigging UNLIKELY it was that it happened?  

Lets see, was that NPS that did that thing?  Did they donate the money. the time, the lawyers?

Machiavelli teaches that if you want to destroy a institution in a captive population, you make the institution look unchanged from the outside while doing what you want.  Yeah, Sunnyside is exactly the same as C4... its just gonna be more open and inviting to the General Public.

Dude, you are falling for an original (OLD) con.  It must feel good to be manipulated, so many people go for it.  Easier to swallow the propaganda that way, if you dont resist mentally.   After a while, you cant resist, you just go with the flow...

You could've said all of that without spraying insults.

For people that have used the camp four lottery, How has this been working out vs lining up?

different campsite every night.  That'll keep them from staying too long.

I’d much rather show up early and know I’m getting a site versus having to find some sort of internet or service everyday to see if I got a site. Seems like an idea that could be tossed and gladly forgotten. I’ve met some cool people in that line which led to fun nights around a fire with people you otherwise wouldn’t have met. 

Also $10 non refundable application lottery fee

I was there two days ago. All other campgrounds full. Camp 4 mostly empty

Then the new arrangement is working perfectly.

Too bad.

Park Service is right.  Climbers are idiots.

Tried out the lottery system today. No luck, just $10 poorer.

And the idea is still stupid... I’m sure they’ll keep it if they’re making the money off of it though. 

If people were lining up before sunset the previous day, then the old system was obviously broken.  Hilariously, it sounds like they replaced it with an even worse system.

I always thought the best solution would be an in-person lottery.  Anyone who shows up at 8am gets a ticket; at 8:10 they draw raffle tickets and winners get a campsite.

The in person lottery is also pretty lame. I showed up once for a Whitney permit. I was the last person to show up. Got in the circle and drew number 3 out of 25. I felt bad for the people that waited. But, that is the game they set up and I just played.

I don’t understand how a first come first serve basis wasn’t working. It’s nobody’s fault but your own if you aren’t in line early. People who show up at 6am were still getting sites last time I was up there. If they did a 8am handout and 8:10 drawing they would still have hoards trying to line up early just to get a ticket. If I don’t have a site I usually just go out to the 4x4 trails and camp there. Weirdly enough they have signs that say please put out fires prior to leaving. I really didn’t think I’d ever see a place in CA where you can have a random fire in the forest.

other wrote: Also $10 non refundable application lottery fee

I thought you were joking?  They don't refund your money if you don't get in?  Is that normal practice for lottery queues?

Justin. S wrote: I don’t understand how a first come first serve basis wasn’t working. It’s nobody’s fault but your own if you aren’t in line early. People who show up at 6am were still getting sites last time I was up there. If they did a 8am handout and 8:10 drawing they would still have hoards trying to line up early just to get a ticket. If I don’t have a site I usually just go out to the 4x4 trails and camp there. Weirdly enough they have signs that say please put out fires prior to leaving. I really didn’t think I’d ever see a place in CA where you can have a random fire in the forest.

"This system is inefficient and has contributed to wildlife issues due to improper food storage, out of bounds camping, and conflicts between campers." https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/news/yosemite-national-park-announces-the-launch-of-a-pilot-daily-lottery-for-camp-4-campground.htm

Translation: rangers are sick of us being dumbasses.

NegativeK wrote:

"This system is inefficient and has contributed to wildlife issues due to improper food storage, out of bounds camping, and conflicts between campers." https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/news/yosemite-national-park-announces-the-launch-of-a-pilot-daily-lottery-for-camp-4-campground.htm

Translation: rangers are sick of us being dumbasses.

I think that translates to don’t be a dumbass and if you don’t get a site simply camp outside the valley like you’re supposed to. If you decide to illegally camp in the valley and leave your food out causing issues with the bears and all you deserve the full effect of  insane fine and jail time. It’s not hard to wake up early and wait. From my experience the majority of people at camp four complaining at the end of the line and causing issues aren’t even climbers they’re mostly tourists  who are upset they showed up at 8am expecting to be standing at the kiosk.

abandon moderation wrote:

Where are there 4x4 trails? I always end up along the road outside the arch rock entrance.

Messaged you

I had a ranger wake up the full line after midnight, acknowledge that he didn't give a shit about us sleeping, and ask us multiple times to make sure our bags and cars had no food in them. That's the camping (the sleeping in line) and food problems they're nuking with the lottery system.

Maybe it'll all go back to being easy if the current trend of "the outdoors is great!" goes away. That's not now, though.

NegativeK wrote: I had a ranger wake up the full line after midnight, acknowledge that he didn't give a shit about us sleeping, and ask us multiple times to make sure our bags and cars had no food in them. That's the camping (the sleeping in line) and food problems they're nuking with the lottery system.

Maybe it'll all go back to being easy if the current trend of "the outdoors is great!" goes away. That's not now, though.

That’s what I don’t understand. There’s literally bear lockers less than a mile down the road from the camp ground you can go out your food in until you get a site. People are just dumb and lazy.