Zodiac and/or Tangerine Trip gear

Hi all

Looking for some updated route and gear advice for Zodiac and/or Tangerine Trip climbs this October.  I assume both are in good shape and have had not major route alterations due to rock fall or features becoming dodgy?  In addition to existing collection of micro- and off-set cams; basic selection of hooks and cam hooks, do we also need a selection of Tomahawks/Peckers, or will it go clean with fixed gear?  Any other full aid gear required - KB, heads, etc?

I suspect we should have a hammer in the bag so any recommendations considering it's unlikely to get any of use?

Experience so far is Lurking Fear and The Nose both of which went without any clusters - thanks to all the great information on this forum!

Cheers for the advice

The trip is my least favorite route I’ve done on el cap. Lots of bolt ladders. The steep pitch is really cool, the rest doesn’t make up for it. 

druss uk wrote: Hi all

Looking for some updated route and gear advice for Zodiac and/or Tangerine Trip climbs this October.  I assume both are in good shape and have had not major route alterations due to rock fall or features becoming dodgy?  In addition to existing collection of micro- and off-set cams; basic selection of hooks and cam hooks, do we also need a selection of Tomahawks/Peckers, or will it go clean with fixed gear?  Any other full aid gear required - KB, heads, etc?

I suspect we should have a hammer in the bag so any recommendations considering it's unlikely to get any of use?

Experience so far is Lurking Fear and The Nose both of which went without any clusters - thanks to all the great information on this forum!

Cheers for the advice

1. Tangerine Trip has major looseness on the start (pitch 3?) that is not yet resolved afaik. I believe people are staying away right now after something huge fell off.

2. These are aid walls that are dependent on fixed heads, pins, rivets and bolts and full kit should include the ability to replace anything that pulls, imo. They are not easy routes to retreat off.

3. Hand placed beaks/sawed off angles (or lightly tapped) are commonly placed and a cheat stick (the last in case of insurmountable changes to the fixed gear on the route) are pretty standard kit.

4. Offset nuts all sizes.

Hand placed beaks allowed us to do the route clean. We'd likely have hammered otherwise. Definitely worth bringing.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

1. Tangerine Trip has major looseness on the start (pitch 3?) that is not yet resolved afaik. I believe people are staying away right now after something huge fell off.

2. These are aid walls that are dependent on fixed heads, pins, rivets and bolts and full kit should include the ability to replace anything that pulls, imo. They are not easy routes to retreat off.

3. Hand placed beaks/sawed off angles (or lightly tapped) are commonly placed and a cheat stick (the last in case of insurmountable changes to the fixed gear on the route) are pretty standard kit.

4. Offset nuts all sizes.

Thanks. Zodiac is first choice but looking for a backup route in case it's busy.

So include a small selection of the gear you mentioned as insurance, but I guess will possibly also open up alternative routes.

Aaron Liebling wrote: Hand placed beaks allowed us to do the route clean. We'd likely have hammered otherwise. Definitely worth bringing.

Was this fairly recently?  How many beaks did you have and what's sizes?  I'm assuming your ascent would be best case.

Keenan Waeschle wrote: The trip is my least favorite route I’ve done on el cap. Lots of bolt ladders. The steep pitch is really cool, the rest doesn’t make up for it. 

Thanks.  Scratched from my list. 

Keenan Waeschle wrote: The trip is my least favorite route I’ve done on el cap. Lots of bolt ladders. The steep pitch is really cool, the rest doesn’t make up for it. 

It’s a route up El Capitan...

We did Zodiac a few years back.  A double set of cams to 5", plus one old green #5 will get you through most off it.  I am a wussy, so I really like having enough big cams to not be totally runout above the Peanut.  Bring extra of the alien sized stuff, including at least one set of offsets.  8-10 assorted rivet handers is plenty.  Bring plenty of tie-offs.  Cam hooks are mandatory for things like the Nipple.  Small hooks were useless, medium hooks were handy a few times (1x each for the leader, 1x backups in the haul bag).  I hand placed a medium-short LA above the nipple in an odd vertical hole (weird placement, LA was more of a hook than a pin), we placed no other LA's.  Medium and large beaks are handy in a couple spots (1 each), mostly hand placed.  I hammered a couple beaks on the last pitch into the back of beaten out pin scars due to being gripped while it was pouring rain on me (not proud).  My partner one-tapped some sawed off angles on the black tower pitch in the 3/4"-1" range, hand placing is likely fine for the non-gripped.

Other Beta:  On the last pitch, haul from the tree to the East of the anchor, not the anchor bolts.  It is much less sucky.

Good route, looking forward to doing it again someday.

We did the Trip a couple years before that, and yeah, Zodiac is much better.  There has recent major rockfall on it, so it is likely best avoided until the dust settles a bit more.

Do the Virginia start to the Trip. It’s better climbing anyway.

Yeah, the Trip is at the bottom of my list. It’s simply lackluster.

druss uk wrote:

Was this fairly recently?  How many beaks did you have and what's sizes?  I'm assuming your ascent would be best case.

A few years ago, so not the most recent conditions.  That said, it should get easier (more or less) every year.

Mostly medium beaks..never needed more than two on any given pitch.  Spiciest part was just above the black tower where the swaging on a rurp broke and I almost decked on to the pointy bit.  Went back up and hooked a beak on top of the rurp.

I climbed Zodiac last October.  We hand placed 2 BD peckers on the 1st pitch (I think a small and a medium).  Other than that it was all cams, nuts, hooks, and rivet hangers.  I led the black tower pitch and never felt like I needed any sawed off angles.....offset cams did the trick.  There was also more fixed stuff then I was expecting.  I am guessing it has to do with the free ascent of Zodiac from a couple years back, or maybe just the amount of traffic it receives?  Anyway it is a great climb!!

Zodiac is definitely the better of the 2 routes.  Its a much more natural line and has some truly memorable pitches. The black tower and all the pitches in the white circle are spectacular.  I did it in 2011 so I'm sure the fixed gear is different but we placed 2 beaks on the black tower but the rest went clean.  2 sets of cam hooks are a must and they are the key for the nipple pitch.  I would also take 2 4's 2-3 5 and 1 6 Camelot for the wide stuff. Other wise you won't clip much on the wide pitch above peanut.  A big Pika hook was also handy in a couple places.  Have fun.

Quinn Hatfield wrote:

It’s a route up El Capitan...

How bad could it be?

It's a pretty boring route so considering the pain of the approach and descent with loads when the entire experience was "meh" at best? Pretty bad. 

I liked it- but what do I know??

I mean- it’s not on the top of my faves, but I’d do it again before a couple other routes I’ve done.. I’d certainly do it again before I hiked out to Lurking Fear.. speaking of the Pain of the approach/descent..  and if I was new to all this and my options were Conga line on Zodiac or The Trip- I certainly wouldn’t take it out of consideration.. 

But I’m one of those guys that lumps climbing el Cap in with pizza and sex... even when it’s bad it’s not so ducking bad 

Quinn Hatfield wrote: I mean- it’s not on the top of my faves, but I’d do it again before a couple other routes I’ve done.. I’d certainly do it again before I hiked out to Lurking Fear.. speaking of the Pain of the approach/descent..  and if I was new to all this and my options were Conga line on Zodiac or The Trip- I certainly wouldn’t take it out of consideration..

RE: Lurking Fear. You are correct sir. That route is just not worth the approach and descent, especially when there's more interesting walling in the same area. 

RE: Conga line on Zodiac vs Trip, it kind of depends upon sheer luck, I've def watched from the meadow as teams lined up for the trip while no one was on Zod and vice versa. Just me, but if I had to choose between a Zod conga Line and an open and free Trip, I'd choose to climb somewhere else. 

Hahaha, here is an example of straight up Fake News - it is completely untrue that the Trip is messed up. It is true that some beginners had trouble on the second pitch, and thought that some of the route had fallen off.......but a friend soloed it last spring and didn't find anything amiss. He posted about it on the fb bigwall forum I remember....hilarious how long this idea has persisted (I even caught Tom Evans telling someone this last summer!).

Woot Woot! Looking pretty incredible up there right now!
E
Yosemitebigwall.com RockclimbYosemite.com

kevin deweese wrote:

RE: Lurking Fear. You are correct sir. That route is just not worth the approach and descent, especially when there's more interesting walling in the same area. 

The funny thing is.. Its the only El Cap route I did twice!! 

Erik Sloan wrote: Hahaha, here is an example of straight up Fake News - it is completely untrue that the Trip is messed up. It is true that some beginners had trouble on the second pitch, and thought that some of the route had fallen off.......but a friend soloed it last spring and didn't find anything amiss. He posted about it on the fb bigwall forum I remember....hilarious how long this idea has persisted (I even caught Tom Evans telling someone this last summer!).

Quinn Hatfield wrote:

The funny thing is.. Its the only El Cap route I did twice!! 

Was much better IAD.. 
I’ll probably refresh my memory of TT this year- but via the Virginia Start.. 

The Virginia start is awesome. I did all of Virginia to Trip last season and I would def recommend doing all of Virginia before finishing on the Trip (lots of fun nailing that's never too hard and funky fun clean placements)

kevin deweese wrote:

The Virginia start is awesome. I did all of Virginia to Trip last season and I would def recommend doing all of Virginia before finishing on the Trip (lots of fun nailing that's never too hard and funky fun clean placements)

Thanks for the feedback all.  I've heard the route name Tangerine Trip so much before, but would never have thought it was only "meh" at best.  LOL

From memory, I don't recall if the Virginia route is in the Super Topo guide?  I'm out and about and it's one of the guide books I didn't bring to ready whilst the wife does her shopping.  

Zodiac is clearly the objective and possibly Virginia if Zodiac has people on it.  About right?  We're planning to arrive and start fixing the same day with a relatively tight schedule.  

Also heard there are changes coming up for Camp 4 requiring registration or something which sounded like it may not be that "easy" to get in as currently?