Talk me out of taking a trad lead class, please.

I took a trad leading class and don't recommend it. Good instructor and format, but there's no substitute for just being on loads of different rock types and using gear in many different features. A class can only teach you how to speak your first words (which you can pick up just as well from books, youtube, other people etc.), leading trad requires that you build a vast vocabulary. And that takes time (many pitches).

IMHO the best way to learn to climb trad is to follow and clean trad for a while.
You can certainly use the partner finder to find a partner with a rack who wants to lead.
The issue with this strategy is if you've only been top-roping, you don't really know how to lead belay or catch a lead fall.
If your class guarantees you will get to lead belay and catch leader falls, it might be worth the money, so that you have this experience to offer.  But you can do this in any gym.  That's where I would start: Take a gym class, lead, take lead falls, and lead belay in a gym where it's predominantly "safe".  I'd take a novice trad climber out if they had this experience but I'm not going to trust my life to someone who doesn't have experience catching falls.

I'm certainly no expert, and it might be a little dated now, but I thought "Traditional Lead Climbing, Surviving the Learning Years" by Heidi Pesterfield was a pretty good book for new trad leaders. She takes a fairly cautious approach that helps you stay alive until you have some experience. Also, if you can stand to do it, getting on a climb while top roped, placing gear on a mock lead rope and weighting it is a pretty good way to figure out what works. A little boring, but safe!

You can go either way but there are pros/cons to each route.  I have been climbing for 25 years and was mostly self-taught but then after I had been trad climbing for about 10 years I went through the AMGA rock program so I have kinda seen the issue from both sides. After 10 years of regular trad climbing (multiple days per week for at least 10 months per year) I was fairly competent.  I  lived in Boulder and had traveled to most of the major climbing areas in the west and pulled off many multi pitch routes up to 5.10 including 3 big walls in Zion and Yosemite.  Prior to the AMGA program I had only 3 days of intro instruction which was mostly limited to top ropes, basic rappelling, knots, belaying and basic movement.  In 2004 I took the first AMGA rock guide course (11 days) and started guiding after that.  First off there are plenty of safe competent self taught climbers out there so I am not on any level saying that the only way to figure this out is with a guide but you will definitely get the systems down faster with some professional instruction.  There are so many things that I can look back and and ask myself why it took me so long to figure something out that I could have learned the right way first with some instruction.  Things like protecting a pitch instead of individual moves.  nesting gear before a runout, building fast strong and simple anchors, bailing off a multi pitch route, and lastly self rescue.  Rescue in particular was something I struggled with before seeing it in the rock instructor course.  There is something about seeing something in a logical progression that helps to solidify a concept in a way that learning things piecemeal can't really do.  I had a couple of mentors but for the first 10 years I was almost always the more experience partner who lead most of the cruxes and did the bulk of the rigging.  I would definitely say that I am safer, faster, and more efficient after having instruction than I was before.  

If it were me I would take a 3 day learn to lead trad course and then go out and get some miles.   Remember learning to trad climb is a years long process and that three day course will give you the information to go out and hone your skills.  I would get a few seasons under my belt and then go back with a real expert (some place with big routes like RMNP, Yosemite, or Red Rocks) to refine my skills.  Like I said either route will get you there but a class will definitely be faster. Have fun and be safe!

Start with learning to lead and belay sport. Your local gym will likely have a course. No point in buying a big trad rack when you are not confident on lead. Plus quick draws are relatively cheap. In the mean time, buy some books and start learning the concept of good gear placements and proper anchors. As you start to lead sport you will meet more people and may find a mentor.(your mentor is going to want to know that you can properly catch them on belay). Then if you feel your study and mentor aren't enough, higher a certified guide to take you on a dream objective and teach you more refined techniques of trad. 

Just an FYI that the second edition of this book came out 2 days ago.

Travis S wrote: I will preface my comment with YGD and I am gunna die, since I am sure it will be said, but Rock Climbing Anchors is a great book and is where I started. I just did what you suggested, bought some gear and started leading stuff well below my limit. So far I have not died. IMO placing gear is not all that complicated and there are plenty of youtube videos out there that are very helpful.

Additionally, you could also just buy some gear and post up in the partner finder or just show up at the gunks. Follow some people who are more experienced and you will learn about placing gear whilst cleaning and getting trad mileage. I am sure there are plenty of people that would be more than willing to let you follow them.

Dan J wrote: Just an FYI that the second edition of this book came out 2 days ago.

Tbh I wouldn’t trust any trad climbing book that still has both covers, all of the pages, and hasn’t seen at least five owners. 

Mydans wrote: protecting a pitch instead of individual moves

Would you care to elaborate on that?

Im a semi new trad climber (been at it for about 3 seasons) and i found the best way for me to learn was just follow. For the first solid "season" i did nothing but follow and mock leading. I also climb way below my sport grade so i can take more time to practice placing gear, and when who ever follows me i always ask/talk about how they thought my gear placements were. Im also lucky enough to live about 30mins from chickies 

Leo Strei wrote: Would you care to elaborate on that?

I often see newer trad climbers screwing themselves because they aren't thinking about the whole pitch when they place gear.  For example, they get to a hard/tricky move and want pro so they place something and clip it short to limit their fall but if the pitch wanders above that piece with no runner may give them a ton of rope drag which could cause a fall later on.  Another example is not being strategic about which pieces they place where.  I often see climbers wanting to place bigger cams to either lighten their rack or because they feel safer. In a lot of cases if you are creative you can find a smaller placement and save the big cam for later.  A lot of times I only carry one 3 and 4 Camelot and if you place them early you may find yourself at a wide section with nothing left that will fit.  A lot of it comes down to looking at the route and guidebook description and planning out your lead beforehand so you don't screw yourself with rope drag and that you are strategic enough in protecting the pitch so you have the pieces you need to get to anchor not just protect the crux.

Not to hijack the OP thread, but I have thought about taking an Intro To Trad class through an organization like American Alpine Institute with the intention of gaining the necessary skills to work on acquiring my SPI for job opportunities later on in the University setting. I do see the benefit of taking a class from guides or instructors who have the knowledge and experiences needed to teach, but I also sought from an experience standpoint, potentially going out to a place like Devils Tower and hiring a guide to run up and down the tower with the added benefit of doing a lot of climbing on an amazing tower while learning the ins/out of trad. Thoughts/comments? Which one do you think will be the best course or situation? I have heard of the legend that is Frank Sanders so I have always wanted to meet him, that has a lot to do with the tower idea as well. 

Fact of the matter is that:

1. Taking a class won't hurt but you won't retain much more than book larnin' if not less.

2. Its going to be mileage that makes you a trad leader, not one class.

3. Your belayer should have more experience than you for your first leads.

You just gotta take the plunge on routes you would never, ever fall off of and spend some time in the boulders placing and hang testing on your placements.

Are there instructors that actually let you lead a pitch on your own?

Otherwise, what's the point?

Sloppy Second wrote: Are there instructors that actually let you lead a pitch on your own?

Otherwise, what's the point?

yes absolutely - some have you mock lead first - it all depends on the situation, your level and the guide's judgement - but yes for sure.  My first lead was with a guide at the gunks on a 5.3.  I had first gone out for a day of multi pitch climbing.  Then I took a top rope anchor class.  Then I climbed top rope with some more experienced folks for a few months.  During this time I read a few books multiple times.  Later on I did a learn to lead day - placing gear and building basic anchors.  I then did a 5.3 lead.  After that I went out with more experienced partners who were willing to let me lead 3s and 4s while I followed them up Gunks 5's, 6's, and 7s.  I am in my 4th season leading now - Gunks 5.6.  I would agree that taking classes is just a start - I have been fortunate to continually find cool, reasonable, experienced people willing to teach.  But I highly recommend classes if you can afford it.  I have done quite a few days with guides across the country and I have never regretted a single cent of the money I spent on it.

I found the experience of mock AIDING with top rope backup to be extremely educational. It allows you to place marginal pro and see how it responds. For instance, I learned that I was too conservative with tricams (never pulled one) and too optimistic with hexes (walked more easily than I had imagined). Mock aid also requires you to place a lot more pieces (every 2-4 feet), so you get more practice per pitch.

Where in central PA?  There's plenty of rock hidden out there... safe harbor, chickies, boxcar rocks, mocanaqua come to mind... but those are on the eastern half. Find a place with top access and practice mock-leading while on TR.  Weight the gear you place to see it hold.  Have you partner check it and critique it.  Keep practicing that route till your confident.

My 2 cents. The leading isn’t the hurdle. Climb within your limits and your good. Problems arise when you need to set up anchors 300’ up, swap leads, start a third pitch and remember to not unclip early, learn safe communication with your partner, belay from above safe with redirect or from anchor, accend a rope, escape a belay, deal with someone following who freaks at the 3rd belay, and the list goes on ...

Get out and do some easy single pitches. Good times will be had by all!

phylp wrote: IMHO the best way to learn to climb trad is to follow and clean trad for a while.
You can certainly use the partner finder to find a partner with a rack who wants to lead.
The issue with this strategy is if you've only been top-roping, you don't really know how to lead belay or catch a lead fall.
If your class guarantees you will get to lead belay and catch leader falls, it might be worth the money, so that you have this experience to offer.  But you can do this in any gym.  That's where I would start: Take a gym class, lead, take lead falls, and lead belay in a gym where it's predominantly "safe".  I'd take a novice trad climber out if they had this experience but I'm not going to trust my life to someone who doesn't have experience catching falls.

This is worth repeating! 

BITD the first thing those old dads did (Sierra Club learn to climb outings) was make you catch the “Sierra Sow”..... 160 lbs ff2 or close to it! Most failed to stop it from decking the first time and one needed to demonstrate the ability to get this right before you could get to the fun stuff like rappelling and climbing. I don’t think this would work in today’s world at the gym. Today they let you TR belay cause it’s piss EZ. But BITD if you could catch lead falls people would let you climb with them. They needed good belayers- still do. That’s how one learned the sport. Hiring a guide service, to teach you how to be a great belayer would be money well spent. Anyway go hire a guide to teach you to lead. If they are a “good guide”- worth the $$- they know this. One last thing- I one time tried to hire a guide, on a business trip in NY, to provide a rack and qualified follower. They told me “it doesn’t work like that”  
Good luck with your climbing. 

John Reeve wrote: By the way... yeesh... 38 isn't "older".     I'm 41.  I went climbing with a 23 year old this weekend, and we had a great time.  But I'll climb with about anybody of any age if they are fun to be around.

Same, i’m 44, i have a grp of people that i train and climb with regularly. The age range is 18-50 its a super electic grp but we all have a blast together.

Peter Herman wrote:So is the class my only option or should I try for something else?

It has been 9 days since the question was posted. What did you decide?

My view is, yes, a class is a good idea. It is one possible puzzle piece of the many needed to learn this trad / multi-pitch game. 

Still, you need to have much more than one piece in mind before the picture might come together for you. Otherwise, if you take the class, what you learn there will quickly fade. Nothing wrong with just having that experience. I did it too. But it is not enough if your goal is competently leading trad / multi-pitch.

And you’re 38? I took a five day multi-pitch follower’s class when I was about 42.  It just was not “the one thing” that propelled me to the goal. But it was a valuable piece of my puzzle.