Staying warm

I tend to wear 3 thin layers and a big puffy.  I’m warm but I’d like to be warm without a puffy.  I understand some
Situations demand a puffy but some don’t.  I’m wondering how many layers most people use and of what type.  My legs and feet are fine as are my hands.  Does anyone out there use 5 or 6 layers?  I feel restricted by my down coat but I don’t want my core cold.  What are my options?

Are you talking about staying warm while climbing or while belaying? For me, those are two different ball games that require two strategies.

While climbing I wear 1 layer (Rab Alpha Direct), unless its below 0 or extremely windy, then I wear 2 (Arcteryx Proton LT). If you are asking about staying warm while moving, my advice would be wear less layers and don't stop moving.

While belaying I throw on the big belay jacket (Mountain Equipment Citadel). At no point am I wearing more than 3 layers. 5-6 just sounds crazy.

I use a base layer shirt, Patagonia R1 with hood, micro down vest, mid layer (nano air hoodie), then a shell. I store my puffy in my bag to pull out while belaying, but rarely climb in it. It's pretty light and keeps me toasty. I find that using the R1 hoodie and sometimes the hoodie of my nano air inside my helmet can substantially change how warm I am. 

Don't worry about the number of layers. Just wear what keeps you comfortable. On a recent outing, I was wearing 3 layers of what most folks would wear against their skin. Then a light synthetic pullover (think 60g Primaloft) and a light softshell jacket.  When I got inactive I put the big down puffy over it all. That's 6 garments.

I'd say number of layers is irrelevant. Do what works for you.

I typically only wear a puffy when belaying which would be my 5th layer. My big puffy is either 5th or 6th layer.

I've been wearing 3 layers on bottom recently and have been happier with warmer toes.

Don't underestimate the importance of nutrition in staying warm.  Are you eating enough dense, slow-burning food?  I can tell to within about a half hour when I run out of fuel to burn in my sleeping bag at night.

Dallin Carey wrote: Are you talking about staying warm while climbing or while belaying? For me, those are two different ball games that require two strategies.

While climbing I wear 1 layer (Rab Alpha Direct), unless its below 0 or extremely windy, then I wear 2 (Arcteryx Proton LT). If you are asking about staying warm while moving, my advice would be wear less layers and don't stop moving.

While belaying I throw on the big belay jacket (Mountain Equipment Citadel). At no point am I wearing more than 3 layers. 5-6 just sounds crazy.

Yes sorry while belaying is my issue.  I also think I may be underestimating the wind which may be draining my warmth.

Actual air temperature is only part of the equation. Wind, activity level, how wet you are, and sun exposure are also important factors.  

djh860 wrote:

Yes sorry while belaying is my issue.  I also think I may be underestimating the wind which may be draining my warmth.

It's going to be pretty hard to fix being cold while belaying without adding additional layers while belaying, unless you want to be too warm while climbing (which, after you sweat, is just going to make belaying colder).

Some strategies:

1. Separate approach layers (like a light base layer and wind shell), then change into climbing layers.
2. Switching from hardshell while belaying, to softshell while climbing.

Why do you find it distasteful to have a belay puffy?

I have issues with temps that are more than a few degrees below freezing. Especially when in the shade. Give me <20F without direct sunlight and I am going to struggle. I think I have Reynaud's...feet get cold in 6000m boots in the 20-30F range. Minimum glove is insulated work glove (i.e. 'guide' gloves) or I might as well not be wearing any.

Yet, I've been generally managing to stave off even needing a belay puffy (or to shed garments) by simply picking my layers carefully and trying to stick with them through brief hot/cold bouts. I find that my core stays overall warmer when I just let myself sweat a bit, rather than remove clothing, get cold, then struggle to get back to some kind of equilibrium. And when my core is happy, it's better for my hands and feet.

Of course, this also means all your layers need to be full-zips, so you can at least vent your chest if you're overheating.

My setup for a while has been a light poly base tee (I like Craft; that textured, high-airflow fabric makes a great first layer), a wool hoodie (Icebreaker; wool is best here but a mid-weight poly hoodie also works, and is cheaper and probably more durable), an ultralight puffy (I have an Eddie Bauer that is very stingily stuffed with a bit of 800 fill), and a light, single-layer softshell (OR Ferrosi Summit is fantastic).

In a similar vein, I've sworn off switching between uber-comp skin gloves and expedition mittens. Everything is an insulated midweight glove. BD Sparks were what turned me on to 'work' type gloves. All leather gloves with a decent lining can be pretty warm, and dexterity is often better than what you might expect for the bulk. Upgraded from those to some Hestra Fall Lines. Also really liking some CAMP gloves- the 'G hot dry' variant is, yes, quite warm.

FosterK wrote:

It's going to be pretty hard to fix being cold while belaying without adding additional layers while belaying, unless you want to be too warm while climbing (which, after you sweat, is just going to make belaying colder).

Some strategies:

1. Separate approach layers (like a light base layer and wind shell), then change into climbing layers.
2. Switching from hardshell while belaying, to softshell while climbing.

Why do you find it distasteful to have a belay puffy?

No issues with a puffy but I’ve noticed some are doing something different and I wanted to understand what that was.

djh860 wrote: My legs and feet are fine as are my hands.

Maybe you don't feel like you need it, but adding more layers to your bottom half can add more warmth to your entire body. 

I tend to go a little heavy for my lower half, finding it easier to adjust my top layers through the day, I have also started taking my Rab Microlight and Rab Neutrino Pro instead of one giant puffy. If it's a really cold day I'll leave the Microlight on for climbing, or if it's a warmer day I won't bother with it for belays, instead just using the Neutrino.

I think the end result is layers layers layers.....and adjust for the situation throughout the day.

beccs wrote:

Maybe you don't feel like you need it, but adding more layers to your bottom half can add more warmth to your entire body. 

I tend to go a little heavy for my lower half, finding it easier to adjust my top layers through the day, I have also started taking my Rab Microlight and Rab Neutrino Pro instead of one giant puffy. If it's a really cold day I'll leave the Microlight on for climbing, or if it's a warmer day I won't bother with it for belays, instead just using the Neutrino.

I think the end result is layers layers layers.....and adjust for the situation throughout the day.

I’ll try that.

In a typical 20-35* (...ish) environment, I've not found baselayer pants to do me any good. I can't give any science for it; they just don't work for me in non-extreme temps. If I keep the overall warmth of my three upper layers (wool/micropuff/softshell), then a pair of midweight longjohns isn't going to feel like it adds much. If I need to lose either my down jacket or softshell, I end up getting cold really easily...and warm legs don't keep the rest of me from shaking or my hands from going numb. Even if you pushed the cold tolerance of my three top layers (and a pair of OR Cirques or similar)...like, say, a nice single digit belay...I'm not going to be pining for more pants, I'm gonna ask if anybody's got a spare puffy.

And I also usually just sit on the snow a lot. Wet butt doesn't bother me; modern pants dry absurdly fast. I dunno man, it's like butt just don't get cold. Butt gonna keep on buttin'.

David M wrote: In a typical 20-35* (...ish) environment, I've not found baselayer pants to do me any good. I can't give any science for it; they just don't work for me in non-extreme temps. If I keep the overall warmth of my three upper layers (wool/micropuff/softshell), then a pair of midweight longjohns isn't going to feel like it adds much. If I need to lose either my down jacket or softshell, I end up getting cold really easily...and warm legs don't keep the rest of me from shaking or my hands from going numb. Even if you pushed the cold tolerance of my three top layers (and a pair of OR Cirques or similar)...like, say, a nice single digit belay...I'm not going to be pining for more pants, I'm gonna ask if anybody's got a spare puffy.

And I also usually just sit on the snow a lot. Wet butt doesn't bother me; modern pants dry absurdly fast. I dunno man, it's like butt just don't get cold. Butt gonna keep on buttin'.

I'm not sure if it's fair to compare a pair of long johns to a down puffy. I bet if you put on down pants you'd find it makes a much bigger difference than a pair of long underwear too.

I have a pair of synthetic insulated pants (the first time you snag your puffy pants with your crampons you'll be happy they aren't down!!! Even if they'll never be quite as warm). It makes a huge difference when it gets really cold. There is a limit to how many jackets you can actually wear after all.

"There is a limit to how many jackets you can actually wear, after all' should be on a bumper sticker. That's a sage metaphor for a lotta things. :D

I was just saying that, for me, at the temps most of us in the CONUS climb in, I've never really been sad I left baselayer pants at home, nor glad that I brought them. And with three very thin jackets that fit well with each other, I'm quite comfortable. And I've got jackets left in the tank, my friend...normal sized belay parka still fits fine on top, and then I've got a burly parka-esque hard shell that will fit over THAT. Or I could layer two down parkas. Or maybe I could fit two parkas between my softshell and hardshell.

So that's the answer to the question no one asked: Six. The limit to how many jackets I can wear is six, I think.

I'm currently resisting the urge to go see if I can somehow manage seven...

David M wrote: "There is a limit to how many jackets you can actually wear, after all' should be on a bumper sticker. That's a sage metaphor for a lotta things. :D

I was just saying that, for me, at the temps most of us in the CONUS climb in, I've never really been sad I left baselayer pants at home, nor glad that I brought them. And with three very thin jackets that fit well with each other, I'm quite comfortable. And I've got jackets left in the tank, my friend...normal sized belay parka still fits fine on top, and then I've got a burly parka-esque hard shell that will fit over THAT. Or I could layer two down parkas. Or maybe I could fit two parkas between my softshell and hardshell.

So that's the answer to the question no one asked: Six. The limit to how many jackets I can wear is six, I think.

I'm currently resisting the urge to go see if I can somehow manage seven...

This sounds like a very complex math problem. I feel the first thing to do here is define exactly WHAT constitutes a jacket, on account that have many fleecy type articles which alone, may be called a jacket, but in a more complex layering system I think of them mid to heavy weight base layers.

If I take into account THESE jackets, I feel that seven would be a very attainable number.

djh860 wrote: I tend to wear 3 thin layers and a big puffy.

What are the 3 thin layers you wear (eg. Icebreaker Merino T-shirt + Patagonia R1 Fleece Hoody + Arc’teryx Squamish Hoody) and in what typical conditions/weather?

Top: thermal weight Capilene Hoody, R1 Hoody, Nano Air Hoody (if cold), M10 Anorak (if wet or windy). Bottom: thermal weight Capilene, Capilene air (if cold), soft shell pants. DAS Parka at belays. But my legs have gotten cold when it's below 5°F or so, especially in the wind. I think I need some warmer pants for the coldest days in New England (like on Cannon).