What is a cheap, good, beginner boot/tool combo?

I don't think of myself as an ice climber, I took a class once and did some top roping with a friend who is pretty avid.

But I want something to do in the winter other than ski. Need a cheap set of boots that will work for very short approaches in cold northern MN winters (-20 possible) mostly on farmed ice. Some frozen waterfalls with longer approaches less frequently.

How are the Lowa Civetta Extreme for $100? I used some Koflach BITD, but they don't seem so popular anymore.

What about tools? Most of the ice is off vertical/vertical...no overhanging stuff.

thanks

I think used is where you want to go, hopefully a buddy with more experience can help you navigate?

Long Ranger wrote: I think used is where you want to go, hopefully a buddy with more experience can help you navigate?

MN is not a place you find a lot of used ice climbing gear...the only place I have seen used boots is Vertical Endeavors, and those things have been roached out by about a hundred other people taking the same class I took.  REI has a gear swap, but I haven't ever seen a pair of boots for ice.

The Lowa Civetta I saw online for $100, and they look new, so maybe willing to take a gamble.

I may just borrow a pair of ice tools until I know I'll be doing it regular. Depends on who I meet.

Buck, the Petzl Nomics were updated for this year, so you'll see the old version popping up at pretty good prices.  They are also very hard to beat.  Keep an eye on GearExpress.com as well.  They routinely have 25-30% off tools.  

As for boots, decide if you're actually going to climb when it's -20.  Most single boots with front and rear bails are going to be fine for your first few years of ice climbing, but climbing in -20 is a whole next level of "fun".  Fit is always key for ice boots, so try and find a friend's boot that fits well before buying.  

Chad Hiatt wrote: Buck, the Petzl Nomics were updated for this year, so you'll see the old version popping up at pretty good prices.  They are also very hard to beat.  Keep an eye on GearExpress.com as well.  They routinely have 25-30% off tools.  

As for boots, decide if you're actually going to climb when it's -20.  Most single boots with front and rear bails are going to be fine for your first few years of ice climbing, but climbing in -20 is a whole next level of "fun".  Fit is always key for ice boots, so try and find a friend's boot that fits well before buying.  

If you don't go out when its cold in MN, you will get fat. Just sayin.

The group I know I can climb with throws up a heated tent at the base so you only are ever outside for an hour or two and then warm up for a while if you are getting frozen. They do this for ice diving as well...cutting a hole in the ice and scuba diving through it. No thanks.

I'll look for the Nomics.

not an ice climber but saw folks getting stoked about this deal on a thread earlier: gearexpress.com/cassin-x-al…

I have a pair of  Monsters with extra picks on eBay for 132.50$+ shipping.

Eric Duncan wrote: not an ice climber but saw folks getting stoked about this deal on a thread earlier: gearexpress.com/cassin-x-al…

+1 for this. New tools for $300, I bought a set today. 

If you're not climbing WI 5 those X-Alls are great tools. And you can certainly climb WI5 and harder with X-Alls, it just takes a bit more endurance. I would try boots on in person. Get what fits and is warm.

Buck Rio wrote:

If you don't go out when its cold in MN, you will get fat. Just sayin.

The group I know I can climb with throws up a heated tent at the base so you only are ever outside for an hour or two and then warm up for a while if you are getting frozen. They do this for ice diving as well...cutting a hole in the ice and scuba diving through it. No thanks.

I'll look for the Nomics.

Just looked at your average temps, and you're significantly colder than us "in town".  I'd be curious how that relates to the temps we see in the mountains.  Regardless, it sounds like a double boot might be a good idea.  They are easier to adjust fit, and you get to keep all your toes.  Sounds like you have a fun crowd out there!  Give that ice diving a try!!

I posted that link to the Cassin axes on the other thread.  They're great tools, and that price is awesome.  They do tend to go through picks a little faster than most, so order an extra set of picks early if you can't find them locally.

Chad Hiatt wrote:

Just looked at your average temps, and you're significantly colder than us "in town".  I'd be curious how that relates to the temps we see in the mountains.  Regardless, it sounds like a double boot might be a good idea.  They are easier to adjust fit, and you get to keep all your toes.  Sounds like you have a fun crowd out there!  Give that ice diving a try!!

I posted that link to the Cassin axes on the other thread.  They're great tools, and that price is awesome.  They do tend to go through picks a little faster than most, so order an extra set of picks early if you can't find them locally.

How do the Cassin tools compare to the Petzl Nomics?  The handle on the Nomic looks like it would be less tiring to grip. But they are $240 per tool right now. 

The boots thing is going to be tough...the only real place to get them is Midwest Mountaineering, and they don't have sales, you pay MSRP.

Buck Rio wrote:

How do the Cassin tools compare to the Petzl Nomics?  The handle on the Nomic looks like it would be less tiring to grip. But they are $240 per tool right now. 

The boots thing is going to be tough...the only real place to get them is Midwest Mountaineering, and they don't have sales, you pay MSRP.

I've owned both the Cassin X-all mountains and the Petzl Nomics.  The Nomics are much more at home on steeper ice and mixed lines because of that slightly more aggressive angle and grip.  If you're on WI3-4, the Cassin's are really good, probably better than the Nomics.  (The more aggressive the handle, the more awkward the tool swings on low angle ice.)  That being said, I've taken my Nomics on 1500' WI 3-4 alpine lines, climbed loads of WI5, and led M7 with them, so I'm a little partial.  If you think you'll find yourself on mixed lines or on ice harder than WI4, look for a pair of used Nomics on here.  I just saw a couple sets go for about $300 for the pair. 

Boots are always tough.  Your best bet is to try on your friend's boots in your area, then look for them used or discounted online.  Fingers crossed you have a common size!  If you go with double boots, picking up used boots in your shell size and installing a custom liner is a great way to get a perfect fit at a good price.  

Buck, you are focusing on the things that matter: boots that fit, tools that make climbing easy and secure. The other piece of course is crampons. Now I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but crampons won't hold you back as much as the wrong boot or tool. So there's no need IMO to seek out the vary latest $250 'poon, even used for, say, $160. Get full auto ("step-in"), vertical frontpoint crampons (I'm a HUGE fan/advocate of monopoint even from Day One) and you'll do great. Shameless plug - I can hook you up for under $100 when you're ready.

Depends on what your doing.

Nomic's are great for steep technical Ice and probably the most popular tool out there.

X-all's are the most aggressive alpine tool I could find (steepest angle). So they climb steep ice well, but not as good as the nomics.
I chose to buy X-all's because I will be doing longer alpine climbs with the crux pitch WI3-5. I want the ability to self arrest with the straight handle on the easier pitches and snow gullies. The aggressive curve should be sufficient on WI3-5. I haven't climbed with them yet but am pretty excited to try them this winter. 

Gunkiemike wrote: Buck, you are focusing on the things that matter: boots that fit, tools that make climbing easy and secure. The other piece of course is crampons. Now I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but crampons won't hold you back as much as the wrong boot or tool. So there's no need IMO to seek out the vary latest $250 'poon, even used for, say, $160. Get full auto ("step-in"), vertical frontpoint crampons (I'm a HUGE fan/advocate of monopoint even from Day One) and you'll do great. Shameless plug - I can hook you up for under $100 when you're ready.

+1 on this.  Good advice.  The primary difference in a 10 y/o pair of mono point crampons and a brand new pair is just weight.  

I already own some Grivel crampons. They have either one or two front-points. I think they are Rambos. Got them free from an acquaintance who was terminally ill and has since passed.

I think I'll jump on those Cassin all mountains, sounds like they will fit the bill and are not that expensive.

Chad Hiatt wrote:

I've owned both the Cassin X-all mountains and the Petzl Nomics.  The Nomics are much more at home on steeper ice and mixed lines because of that slightly more aggressive angle and grip.  If you're on WI3-4, the Cassin's are really good, probably better than the Nomics.  (The more aggressive the handle, the more awkward the tool swings on low angle ice.)  That being said, I've taken my Nomics on 1500' WI 3-4 alpine lines, climbed loads of WI5, and led M7 with them, so I'm a little partial.  If you think you'll find yourself on mixed lines or on ice harder than WI4, look for a pair of used Nomics on here.  I just saw a couple sets go for about $300 for the pair. 

Question about picks: I climb with the old-ish (2008 or so) Nomics, and way back then-ish i bought a spare pair of Astro picks. Now it appears that those are no longer available. Can the newer picks such as the Pur'Ice be fitted to these tools? This information might also be useful for anyone thinking of buying a pair of old, or even older, Nomics. Thanks.

Apart from this question, which I hope someone can answer easily, if you're considering buying a pair of Nomics any age, stop considering and do it. Especially if, like me, you learned on a pair of battered borrowed Quarks, your life will be changed forever, and for better.

Paul Morrison wrote:

Question about picks: I climb with the old-ish (2008 or so) Nomics, and way back then-ish i bought a spare pair of Astro picks. Now it appears that those are no longer available. Can the newer picks such as the Pur'Ice be fitted to these tools? This information might also be useful for anyone thinking of buying a pair of old, or even older, Nomics. Thanks.

Apart from this question, which I hope someone can answer easily, if you're considering buying a pair of Nomics any age, stop considering and do it. Especially if, like me, you learned on a pair of battered borrowed Quarks, your life will be changed forever, and for better.

All the Nomic, Quark, and Ergo picks are interchangeable...even going back to first gen Nomics.  It's a genius bonus to owning more than one pair of Petzl tools.  

Chad Hiatt wrote: All the Nomic, Quark, and Ergo picks are interchangeable...even going back to first gen Nomics.  It's a genius bonus to owning more than one pair of Petzl tools.  

Chad, thank you. I got suspicious a couple of years ago when I tried to add a pair of "Mini Marteau" hammers that were claimed to "fit Nomic." They didn't. Ever since, I've wondered if there was something different about the newer tools that was incompatible with mine. I still don't get what happened with the hammers, but it's nice to know that I can fit any picks on any of my Petzl tools.

Paul Morrison wrote:

Chad, thank you. I got suspicious a couple of years ago when I tried to add a pair of "Mini Marteau" hammers that were claimed to "fit Nomic." They didn't. Ever since, I've wondered if there was something different about the newer tools that was incompatible with mine. I still don't get what happened with the hammers, but it's nice to know that I can fit any picks on any of my Petzl tools.

Those hammers barely fit anyway.  I had to use a real hammer to get mine on the first time!   

I had to commit to ice gear last season and was trying to do it as cost-minded as possible.

I got Sportiva Nepal boots from REI at 20% off, but still $350.

Petzl Quark tools, $300 for the pair from someone on these forums.

Crampons, just got full priced at REI, $200.

My best advice is to keep your eyes around the For Sale forum here on Mountain Project. There will be TONS of posts for tools and that's probably the most economical way to get them. I know someone mentioned Nomics, and of course, Nomics are phenomenal, but also I think a bit aggressive for what you'll likely need. Quarks are an awesome place to start, but get whatever you can find the best deal on. Same deal with crampons... I find there are a lot of posts for tools and crampons, but they also sell pretty quickly.

Regarding boots, you should be able to find them 20-30% off around the various internet sites. If you're an REI member, you'll be getting a 20% coupon for a full price item in another month or so, so that could be a cheaper way in. I'm always keeping my eye out for a cheap pair of women's mountaineering/ice climbing boots so my gal will join me on the cold days, so its not a bad way to look for a deal.