What is a "Clean Aid Rack?"

What does a standard clean aid rack consist of? What kind of stuff do I need to get into aid?

Trad rack plus hooks. And the occasional body-weight only pieces: brassies, that tiny tricam, green metolius. 

All the gear you can get your hands on.  Clean aid basically means you're not hammering shit into the rock.  So no pitons or bashies.

Be advised  as the clean aid  rating goes up, the more likely you will need hand placed sawed angles, beaks etc.

But essential items for c1 (besides cams and nuts) are cam hooks and brass, c2 hooks etc to make things go fast c3 multiple hand placed pins etc.

Cam hooks are money.

A few rivet hangers can come in handy as well

John Wilder wrote:

Of course it needs to be mentioned that you shouldn't use cam hooks in sandstone- but yes, they are clutch for granite.

Aid in sandstone is folly in general, lol. I mean, I guess I have done it, but its not interesting. Its either cams, the odd nut  or wholesale destruction of the rock.

don'tchuffonme wrote: All the gear you can get your hands on.  Clean aid basically means you're not hammering shit into the rock.  So no pitons or bashies.

I'm pretty sure bashies are considered clean, if left in situ.
You gotta replace 'em when they rip right?

How are cam hooks in schist?

Tyler Newcomb wrote: How are cam hooks in schist?

Depends on the schist!

Eli wrote:

I'm pretty sure bashies are considered clean, if left in situ.
You gotta replace 'em when they rip right?

You have a point, sir.  But there is some potential for damage, albeit small.  I guess that's why I mentioned them.

Marc H wrote: And the occasional body-weight only pieces

Link cams?

Eli wrote:

I'm pretty sure bashies are considered clean, if left in situ.
You gotta replace 'em when they rip right?

Um, no...it is not a hammer less (clean) ascent if you use a hammer. Stop. Period. End. :)

Have you ever placed a head before? There is nothing clean about it...

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Um, no...it is not a hammer less (clean) ascent if you use a hammer. Stop. Period. End. :)

Have you ever placed a head before? There is nothing clean about it...

Almost all the “clean” routes I’ve done have left me clipping fixed heads. Someone has to replace them when they rip, same as rivets or bolts.

I’m not going to argue ethics or dichotomic semantics with you tut.

Eli wrote:

Almost all the “clean” routes I’ve done have left me clipping fixed heads. Someone has to replace them when they rip, same as rivets or bolts.

I’m not going to argue ethics or dichotomic semantics with you tut.

It ain't semantics bro. Its simple reality. Use of hammer = not clean. This does not mean for a second that they may not need to be replaced or that you used as good a style as possible. Clipping fixed gear is fine in a clean ascent. Placing fixed gear is not.

A lot of trade routes in the valley go "clean" as long as the fixed gear is there.  On trade routes certain heads tend to get fixed and the assumption is that you generally just clip them and hope they don't rip.  If you have to replace them then its a different ballgame. Thats why I never clip them because then if one fails you might rip out a bunch and possibly spend hours replacing them. The zodiac is a good example.  Early 2000"s it was climbed almost exclusively clean because of added chicken bolts and fixed heads/pins.  Around 02-04 (can't remember exactly) a group went through and removed most if not all of the fixed gear that wasn't on Porters original topo.  It totally changed the character of the route.  A lot of people will say they climbed a route clean even though they clipped fixed heads or pins because they didn't hammer but the assumption is always that they used what was there.  Maybe thats not the best explanation but it my 2 cents.

It's a coat hanger with a toilet brush and sponge hanging off it.

Don't forget a 30 foot stick clip

Eli wrote:

Almost all the “clean” routes I’ve done have left me clipping fixed heads. Someone has to replace them when they rip, same as rivets or bolts.

I’m not going to argue ethics or dichotomic semantics with you tut.

Yet you didn’t say that a clean aid rack should include a bolt kit or a hammer to place the heads or the bolt/rivet. Strange. 

No one asking what a clean aid rack should consist of should be told to bring heads. First of all, any routes they’re going to do isn’t going to have crazy heads in proper head placements where only a head will do. On the slightest chance that they’re there when the mandatory head is gone (in reality almost never happens on easy clean trades) they’ll figure out  hook or handplacment of a beak on the deadhead or else find a another way around the placement. Anyone telling OP to bring heads but not a hammer is just being an ass. 

I'm not disputing anything anyone has said, since I have one pitch of aid following a roof under my belt, but a lot of what I'll be doing is seldom climbed clean aid. Does that change what I should bring?

Tyler Newcomb wrote: I'm not disputing anything anyone has said, since I have one pitch of aid following a roof under my belt, but a lot of what I'll be doing is seldom climbed clean aid. Does that change what I should bring?

If you want any advice that will be useful, you're going to need to put more work in on your end. Tell us what type of climbing you'll be doing (ie: routes you want to do, type of rock, clean versus nailing, speed versus bigwall camping, solo, partner, three person, etc etc etc etc etc)

Until you give us that, we're just going to give you four to five pages of aid geeks sniping at each other over esoteric stuff that won't be helpful to you at all. After all, garbage in garbage out.