1 its not hard to say what you climbed and leave it at that unless you spray
2 the FA dealth with suspect rock, not many people like loose rock on solo missions
3 the guy in the video has a bunch of stoned friends that encourage reckless behavior before he even masters the rock, its obvious to folks who have done it for a while.
but yeah, the internet/magazine scene encourages it. something to write about. Darwinism.
1) does that make you a spraylord for mentioning that you led the route rather than toproped it? (I'm aware of the irony in your username in this conversation right now, and it's delicious and I love it!)
2) the loose rock of the FA party has nothing to do with anything I just said. they still are forcing all future repeaters to lock horns with death potential if they wish to bag the route, which the soloist does not do.
3) I posted an edit mentioning that I wasn't referring to individual cases on this thread. Every individual case has their own motivations and doesn't necessarily represent the whole of that group, and there's going to be idiots somewhere in every branch of climbing, that's not at all unique to soloing (have you been to the crag on a popular day? *cringes*). The vid looked sketch, I'm not defending that.
On magazines, they also encourage sends of bold "death routes" and high altitude alpinism. Alpinism is much more deadly than soloing, and they accept that as a cost of business. I've never heard a soloist look up at a route and say "yup, that's worth dying for," but I've definitely heard it from the mountain crowd. Typically if a soloist looks at a route and thinks "hey, i could die on that" then they'll pick a different line. the mountain crowd knows there's an inherent unpredictability in the weather which could kill them even if the avalanche and rockfall doesnt. So... if you have an objection to bold trad and high altitude alpine... then I'll concede the point and say we just have different opinions... otherweise it looks to me as if you're choosing to hold onto logical inconsistencies... though I'm open to having my mind changed if you can provide logic to the contrary. fair?
4) why do soloists pick popular lines? Has it occurred to you that the lines are popular for a universal reason that appeals to everyone? Are you saying that soloists should stick to obscure chosspiles? That sounds pretty damned reckless to me.
Sidenote: I've actually noticed a trend when filtering through the mountainproject database.... If you filter mountainproject for "most popular" in a particular grade range at a particular crag, the top of the list has many of the most common solos right at the top. It seems like the popular routes are popular because they have a universal aesthetic which appeals to all climbers and probably also because nobody really likes feeling insecure, even when they're on a rope.
Is that why you choose to toprope such popular lines? so they can find your body easier when your anchor fails?
EDIT: Holy crap, no wonder our buddy Austin is so long winded. Look at this display - even more if you look at all the pics. I'm not even going to comment, I don't need to.
Only, Locals wrote: Holy crap, no wonder our buddy Austin is so long winded. ....
Aye, ya caught me, I dabble in it a bit!
As many folks here have commented, it’s imperative to perform this type of climbing for the right reasons. Therefore: Whenever folks debate this stuff, I take it as an opportunity to inspect my own motivations, so I present my logic as clearly as I can. The hope being this: if I’m way off base and conducting myself in a manner that’s fucked up, someone can call me out and bring attention to it.
As a result, I’ve done a lot of growing in the past decade
Maybe you could call me a “recovering spraylord”? Or maybe I’m just too excited about the things I enjoy? I’m a work in progress, as we all should be... and if you find flaws or fallacies in my logic, I’m happy to ponder that with you!
I guess I've never really understood this stigma about spraying. I know some people climb for the spiritual awakening (namaste, my dudes!) but I climb because... actually I have no idea why I love it, I just do. Climbing is cool, climbers not so much. If my friends do something awesome I want to hear about it. I'm psyched for them. It pushes me to try harder. Sure it's dumb to stand outside Earth Treks and shout your left foot beta at passing cars but I'm sitting here on a work day about to quit early and go try hard on a 10 that I still can't get and I'm glad that I can click a few links and see what crazy shit Austin's done even though we'll never meet.
Paul I think it's rad that you solo. I hope you stay safe, man. And I want to hear about all of it. That's why I'm here in the first place.
Corey Herbert wrote: Paul I think it's rad that you solo. I hope you stay safe, man. And I want to hear about all of it. That's why I'm here in the first place.
That hurt my feelings.
Ha! Just kidding! It IS rad! For anyone! When people stunt with dirt bikes, or dick around while skydiving, or scuba diving, and laugh and holler about it over a beer afterwards; that's fun! And we even give each other a little shit. Why would we voluntarily pursue anything during our short lifetime that doesn't get us excited?
Corey Herbert wrote: I guess I've never really understood this stigma about spraying... [...] If my friends do something awesome I want to hear about it. I'm psyched for them. It pushes me to try harder.
I guess what it comes down to is a difference between spraying, and taking pride in what you do.
All day long when you're punching that time card, folks tell you to take pride in your work. But... somehow I'm not allowed to take pride in my play? I don't buy that for a minute.
I think that's natural. If you put a lot of effort towards a goal, and then you achieve it after proper hard work... that's something to take pride in. Be proud, but don't beat folks over the head with it. Let them talk about what gets them stoked too! And really that's what it's all about. Getting stoked, sharing the mojo, and taking pride in the process. Your end-goal might be sport, trad, big-wall, or aid, and mine is soloing.... but there's something universal about that desire to work hard and achieve a goal that unites us all, and that's pretty damned cool if you ask me!
I guess what it comes down to is this: Are you sharing some good mojo, or are you running somebody over and stealing their thunder like you've got something to prove? That's the difference between having pride or spraying.
Corey Herbert wrote: If my friends do something awesome I want to hear about it. I'm psyched for them.
DM Sent Keep it chill mah man
Lazy
·
May 25, 2018
·
Los Angeles, CA
· Joined Mar 2013
· Points: 20
Soloing is always controversial as the opinions of people on the arguments on both sides are so obvious even a gumby would agree.
Can we all agree that:
Some significant percentage of experienced climbers 'solo'? It's certainly not 1% and it's certainly not 95%, unless you count approach routes.
Some people think risk-taking beyond the norm is a very private and/or spiritual thing. Some people think it's just a normal aspect of climbing.
Some people want to keep anything controversial or personal to themselves and think bragging about grades, whether bouldering, trad, sport, or soloing, is the epitome of pretentiousness and ruins the experience
Other people are extroverts and enjoy sharing their experience and activities with friends and internet trolls, because they enjoy sharing their thoughts and goals with people of similar interests, especially when they've done something that they are proud of.
Alex Honnold, Brad Gobright, Dean Potter, John Bachar, Peter Croft, Michael Riordan, Dan Osman, Yabo, and Derek Hershey are badasses and titans of climbing
Dean Potter, Peter Croft, Alex Honnold, Brad Gobright, Michael Riordan, Dan Osman, Yabo, and Derek Hershey are glamorizing a dangerous thing, setting immoral examples, and are the most evil, selfish people to family, friends, and the world
I, MP-Lazy, personally, am the greatest poster in this thread because I've onsight soloed 5.14d, done 60 foot V15 highballs with a last move crux, and onsighted 95% of the hard cracks in JTree, Gunks, and Red Rocks with only hexes and stoppers. Plus it is my decree that gym climbing, speed climbing, and Everest babysitting guiding services are the worst things to happen to climbing in the past 100 years.
No, my man. This is the internet. I’m afraid that’s just not going to be possible.
Lazy
·
May 29, 2018
·
Los Angeles, CA
· Joined Mar 2013
· Points: 20
Corey Herbert wrote:
No, my man. This is the internet. I’m afraid that’s just not going to be possible.
Isn't making the impossible possible exactly what risk taking is? We can, the two of us and the 7,323 readers of this thread, achieve what has never been done before, and rocket mountain project to the top of the internet fame rankings.
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