Butora Altura v TC Pros

Thue Madsen wrote:

How and how much does the Alturas stretch as they are worn in? 

I tried on a few pairs and while they feel good my toes are either slightly curled or there extra space in front of them... TCs feel super uncomfortable out of the box unless I size them up to the point of them fitting super sloppy.

A smidge I hear. Not much as they are made from hemp.

Thue, in length, expect minimal stretch if any at all. The uppers might stretch slightly in width. My size 14 wides stretched noticeably in width (uppers?) but not at all in length.

I just picked up a pair of Alturas. My first impressions are that the shoe looks and feels extremely well made. The rubber is ...different. Feels much softer (and stickier) to the touch than the TC pro, which has been my go-to for years. 

They come in normal/tight and wide. I got normal. 

I bought them 1 size smaller than my street shoe, and the same as my TC pro (size 10) and they run slightly smaller (I imagine the wide is closer to the TC)

I tried them out Sunday at the gym, to see if i could manage to wear them for any length of time and was pretty happy with their performance overall.

My one complaint is the heel. It seems that the threads on the hemp lining dig into my heel. It's not terrible, but has anyone else experienced this? Did it go away over time? 

Kyle Elliott wrote:

I just picked up a pair of Alturas. My first impressions are that the shoe looks and feels extremely well made. The rubber is ...different. Feels much softer (and stickier) to the touch than the TC pro, which has been my go-to for years. 

They come in normal/tight and wide. I got normal. 

I bought them 1 size smaller than my street shoe, and the same as my TC pro (size 10) and they run slightly smaller (I imagine the wide is closer to the TC)

I tried them out Sunday at the gym, to see if i could manage to wear them for any length of time and was pretty happy with their performance overall.

My one complaint is the heel. It seems that the threads on the hemp lining dig into my heel. It's not terrible, but has anyone else experienced this? Did it go away over time? 

The heel is the reason I didn't end up buying the Altura when I last bought new shoes. I could feel it right away when I stood up. Shame because I was thinking they would be similar in comfort to the TC Pros. I opted to get new TCs because they are comfortable right out of the box, and I was familiar with the way they climb. 

Can't give my 2c as to how the Alturas climb just due to the heel issue, but I will vouch for TCs all day. My last pair made it through 3 resoles before the rand split. Didn't have delam problems either.

Its a shame, because outside of that, its a beautiful shoe. 

I climbed for 2 hours and the 1st hour or so I barely noticed it. The 2nd hour, I couldn't get the same comfort. The heel was digging in pretty bad. 

So I noticed a really weird thing with TC Pros.  When I bought my first pair, in retrospect I went a little too big (size 46, street shoe size 13).  They were comfortable out of the box, and I was just getting into crack climbing and wanted something that wouldn’t hurt.  With some lace shenanigans, I managed to tighten everything down to where my foot was relatively secure and the heel didn’t slip (usually), and I was pretty impressed by how well they edged for how comfortable they were.  After wearing them a ton and sweating in them, they seem to have even shrunk and are a good all-day fit.

That said, they definitely don’t edge like Miuras (or even my Pinks in the exact same size, for that matter), so I got curious to try a more aggressive fit and impulse-bought a size 45 (a full size down from the last).  Although I noticed a little more heel tension at first, they broke in fairly quickly and ended up feeling like almost the exact same shoe as the 46.  It was perhaps a slightly more snug fit on the sides, but toes were flat and I wasn’t itching to tear them off.  So you can buy a larger size (46 for me) and they won’t stretch much (or even shrink!), or you can buy a smaller size (45) and stretch them out.  You end up with almost the exact same shoe.

So, for those of you who downsized for performance edging...how low did you go?  How good do they get?  Is there a reason to get a tight fitting TC Pro over a more specialized shoe designed for shorter performance, like a Miura or Katana lace?

I wear an 8.5 or so street shoe. I'm between a 26.0 and 26.5 mondo on a brannock device for whatever that's worth.

My sized for edging tc pros are a 38.5. I have a size 39 pair I use for everything, primarily crack climbing. The break in sucks pretty badly with both. But now that they're broken in, they're awesome. The smaller one I can wear easily for a few pitches, the 39 I just wore on a ~550ft route without even untying them. I've also got no problem climbing down to .75 or so desert cracks with them, although around the .5 range it starts to get a little rough.

These shoes stretch a lot, especially as you size them down. Not so much the actual last, but they do break in significantly. There's also a lot of padding in the toe box, which I'm guessing is mostly what broke in with your size down pair, while your size up pair never was tight enough to actually pack out.

Hi Kyle, Butora rep here and saw your struggles. I also see you're from Everett and I likely met you on my recent rounds through WA. 

In terms of the heel pain, I often find during my demos that customers experiencing this have the top part of the heel rolled inward which creates a biting sensation. This happens as you slide you foot into the hi-top designed shoe. Over time this shouldn't occur as the shoe breaks in but with the stiffer new shoe fit of the upper material, this often happens when I am trying climbers into this model. It doesn't happen on any models but 90% of the time, it is this exact issue occurring. If you took your shoes off during you session over the weekend and this occurred the second time you put the shoes on but not the first, this is likely why you had no pain on the first hour vs. the second.

If this isn't occurring, then the shoe should break in slightly in the heel as it molds to your foot while not stretching overall through a couple gym sessions. 

For Keith, the above described issue might be the same for you as this will especially dig into the heel when standing from a sitting/lacing up position.

I hope this helps!

rkrum wrote:

I wear an 8.5 or so street shoe. I'm between a 26.0 and 26.5 mondo on a brannock device for whatever that's worth.

My sized for edging tc pros are a 38.5. I have a size 39 pair I use for everything, primarily crack climbing. The break in sucks pretty badly with both. But now that they're broken in, they're awesome. The smaller one I can wear easily for a few pitches, the 39 I just wore on a ~550ft route without even untying them. I've also got no problem climbing down to .75 or so desert cracks with them, although around the .5 range it starts to get a little rough.

These shoes stretch a lot, especially as you size them down. Not so much the actual last, but they do break in significantly. There's also a lot of padding in the toe box, which I'm guessing is mostly what broke in with your size down pair, while your size up pair never was tight enough to actually pack out.

I agree with everthing stated here. I downsize in a similar way for those uses. I wear a 9.5 street shoe, and have 39.5 TC that I use for performance edging for granite cragging and harder multi pitch, and 40 TC that I use for general purpose crack n slab climbing on more moderate terrain. 

Cool. Thanks, Tyler. 

Pretty impressed overall with the shoe. It most likely won't replace my TC pro, but its a nice addition to the quiver. 

What the Butura rep said about the heel definitely happened to me. It took a couple of times for me to figure out what was causing the awful pinching in the Achilles tendon area of the heel. I finally looked directly at the area and saw that the seam had folded over. They are broken in now and I have no problems. Also, I use these as all day shoes and wear a very, very thin sock, almost like a liner. Works for me at my level and they are quite comfortable. BTW, I wear about a 13.5 street shoe and I always thought the size 46 TC Pros felt too tight. Based on some of the conversation above about how they break in maybe I shouldn’t have dismissed them so quickly. 

Tyler McPherson wrote:

Hi Kyle, Butora rep here and saw your struggles. I also see you're from Everett and I likely met you on my recent rounds through WA. 

In terms of the heel pain, I often find during my demos that customers experiencing this have the top part of the heel rolled inward which creates a biting sensation. This happens as you slide you foot into the hi-top designed shoe. Over time this shouldn't occur as the shoe breaks in but with the stiffer new shoe fit of the upper material, this often happens when I am trying climbers into this model. It doesn't happen on any models but 90% of the time, it is this exact issue occurring. If you took your shoes off during you session over the weekend and this occurred the second time you put the shoes on but not the first, this is likely why you had no pain on the first hour vs. the second.

If this isn't occurring, then the shoe should break in slightly in the heel as it molds to your foot while not stretching overall through a couple gym sessions. 

For Keith, the above described issue might be the same for you as this will especially dig into the heel when standing from a sitting/lacing up position.

I hope this helps!

Hi Tyler, Thanks for your input. I definitely didn't have that problem occur. This was more inside the shoe toward my lower heel. When I looked back inside the heel it was the stitching that was causing my pain. It seems to me like it may have broken in over time, but for me that initial pain was enough for me to not want to suffer through the break in period especially if it meant blisters. Maybe I have a unique foot shape that just doesn't work for this design. I tried both wide and narrow models too and it was the same issue. 

I think it is well designed shoe, except for that stitching in the heel. 

JCM wrote:

I agree with everthing stated here. I downsize in a similar way for those uses. I wear a 9.5 street shoe, and have 39.5 TC that I use for performance edging for granite cragging and harder multi pitch, and 40 TC that I use for general purpose crack n slab climbing on more moderate terrain. 

In contrast to your and rkrum experiences, I measure 26.5 on a brannock but have haglunds deformity. The prominent bone spur high on my heel makes for an odd fit with highly tensioned rands. If I didn't have that bone spur I may be able to downsize similarly to both of you.

I had the TC pro in 40.5 for edging, started out with a slight knuckle to the big toe and stretched to just barely flat. The stretch ended up being the tip of big toe pushing the rand out past the end of the sole. 

Personally, I don't think Butora's rubber is very good. I constantly found it sliding off smaller holds. I would go TC Pro based off of the vibram alone. Definately worth the extra $30 or so.

Nick Drake wrote:

In contrast to your and rkrum experiences, I measure 26.5 on a brannock but have haglunds deformity. The prominent bone spur high on my heel makes for an odd fit with highly tensioned rands. If I didn't have that bone spur I may be able to downsize similarly to both of you.

I had the TC pro in 40.5 for edging, started out with a slight knuckle to the big toe and stretched to just barely flat. The stretch ended up being the tip of big toe pushing the rand out past the end of the sole. 

I have moderately prominent haglund's deformities too. I took a dremel with a grinding attachment and thinned out the rubber around that spot. I did not cut the rand like some do, just ground it down enough in that one spot so it doesn't put quite so much pressure on the bone spur. It has made a pretty significant difference for me.

rkrum wrote:

I have moderately prominent haglund's deformities too. I took a dremel with a grinding attachment and thinned out the rubber around that spot. I did not cut the rand like some do, just ground it down enough in that one spot so it doesn't put quite so much pressure on the bone spur. It has made a pretty significant difference for me.

Good to know the sling shot rand grinding worked for you, I'm impressed that you can downsize that much with haglunds! I may have to give it a try so I can get a flat lasted shoe that actually edges without killing my heel. I've been using katana laces sized a bit large for most of my trad climbing, they jam down into finger crack pod sizes well, but when it comes to thin edging beyond moderate grades they are just too sloppy. 

Concerning Jake’s comment above about the Butora rubber being soft. That is indeed true but it might be a matter of taste and your climbing level that determines whether that is a good thing or not. I don’t climb super hard but weigh about 185 (84kg) naked and I found that I liked the softer rubber, despite my weight. In fact, I have resoled my other trad shoes, Techno Xs, with 5.10 rubber instead of Edge so as to have something similarly soft with those shoes. I like the friction coefficient. If you are climbing really hard stuff with small flakes or face holds, or if you are really heavy, this soft rubber will deform quite easily and you might not like that. Just some personal observations. 

Used my altura on real rock today. It was dry and 34 degrees. Light wind. Post-rain. Columnar Basalt. I climbed 9 routes  (5.8-10c) solo TR. 

They performed like rock shoes should. No complaints. Actually quite sticky . requires more of a smear on small edges . 

Dear god no. I got rid of the butoras a long time ago, but I believe they were US 8.

Tony B wrote:

The TC's are narrow for me, despite being from a maker of generally wide shoes.  

I've NEVER heard anyone say that La Sportiva makes wide shoes! it's a European company and Europeans tend to have much narrower feet than Americans.

For what it's worth, I recently bought Evolv's new trad shoes - "The General" because the TC Pros were way too tight on my feet. I've been really happy with them!

Can't speak on the Alturas though.