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GriGri+, REVO, or what?

Andrew Steavpack · · Castle Pines, CO · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 105
kevin deweese wrote:

the general assumption is that if the climber takes without providing the needed velocity to engage the device, the belayer would need to emulate the speed themselves in order to lock the device, after that, the device should hold the climber in place. Leads to an issue for sport climbing where the belayer can help the climbing "bump" up the rope not being a viable method for this device. But as said, those who have played with it haven't provided these answers and the rest of us are just doing our best based upon the available info.

Exactly what I was trying to put into words thank you haha

Raymond Moreno · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 140

Interesting video on the MR Lifeguard belay device. 

CLICK HERE

Also curious to know which rappels a top-roper better. The MR Lifeguard, the GriGri2, or the GriGri+?

Kevin DeWeese · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 981
Raymond Moreno wrote:

Also curious to know which rappels a top-roper better. The MR Lifeguard, the GriGri2, or the GriGri+?

What does "rappel a top-roper" mean?

Kurt G · · Monticello, UT · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 156

Climbing technology Alpine-Up/Click-Up. hands down my favorite belay devices for assisted braking.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
kevin deweese wrote:

What does "rappel a top-roper" mean?

That means rappeling on a rope anchored above vs. rappeling on a rope from below while on lead. That should help make it clear. :)

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
Ryan Hamilton wrote:

We used a BD Vaporlock carabiner. One last thing to note. When locked up with a climber hanging with full weight on the rope it will let the rope slowly slide through the device if you're not applying braking pressure. Since it keeps the rope sliding through in a straight line it also kept any twists or kinks from forming in the rope. 

Try a wider cross section carabiner next time, not vertically but the width of the rope bearing surface. The vapor is pretty narrow, it's sharp bend radius makes for more assistance with a regular tube device, but the narrower stock makes it less effective in assisted braking devices. A fatter biner will pinch the rope more without travel as far up the tapered channel (harder to make sense in words, if you bust out your pilot and tug the climber side of the rope it should make sense). 

I tried this with the mega jul and jul2, vaporlock had the least assist. I beam style attache had the greatest lock up, but fed poorly. Round stock attache and edelrid strike payed out slack well and locked up fully down to 9.4 ropes on the jul2 and 9.0 on the jul.

Ryan Hamilton · · Orem · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 5
Nick Drake wrote:

Try a wider cross section carabiner next time, not vertically but the width of the rope bearing surface. The vapor is pretty narrow, it's sharp bend radius makes for more assistance with a regular tube device, but the narrower stock makes it less effective in assisted braking devices. A fatter biner will pinch the rope more without travel as far up the tapered channel (harder to make sense in words, if you bust out your pilot and tug the climber side of the rope it should make sense). 

I tried this with the mega jul and jul2, vaporlock had the least assist. I beam style attache had the greatest lock up, but fed poorly. Round stock attache and edelrid strike payed out slack well and locked up fully down to 9.4 ropes on the jul2 and 9.0 on the jul.

I'll give that a try, but as long as there is some pressure on the brake side of the rope the climber stays put. The way the braking works is it uses the side of the carabiner when locking up so it uses the wide side and not the narrow profile, so I'm not sure that a fatter round stock carabiner will do anything, but I definitely want to try with some other options to see what does best. My usual belay biner is the older bar stock Petzl Attache. The BD recomended biners are the vapor and gridlock. 

Alex Temus · · Lehi, UT · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 362
kevin deweese wrote:

What does "rappel a top-roper" mean?

Just some confusion. You BELAY another climber up a route (from adove or below). You RAPPEL or lower yourself down a rope to the ground.

Parker Webb · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 120

Didn't care to really read all of these, as I am procrastinating writing a paper and am also slightly tipsy (yay college). 

My two cents is as follows: I have used the grigri 2 for years, the grigri+ throughout the past year, demoed the Revo for a day, demoed the Pilot for a day.

I love the grigri2, as it works, proves it works and is sort of the standard for today's sport climber. Boinking, catching falls, giving slack quick, it does it all if you know how to use it properly. The grigri + is similar, with added durability and the anti-panic feature. My girlfriend uses this device and loves it. I did not at first, as the index finger catch is much smaller making it harder to hold. yet it is nice in TR mode, doesn't make a difference from the grigri2 in lead mode. The anti-panic component of the + is nice and a nuisance at the same time. If I guided frequently, I would enjoy it. Lowering friends from a climb, not so much at first. I learned to get used to it, becoming indifferent. 

As for the Revo, I was super stoked when I initially heard about it. Awesome sounding and looking device. Then demoing it, I couldn't get it to catch and lock. I was basically told I was belaying too much like an ATC for it to lock the way it was supposed to. My climber would whip, I'd keep my brake hand down, no locking, just normal ATC-style friction catch for the fall. Boinking up the rope was a pain in the ass due to this. If I didn't know proper belay technique (or more Euro-style, no offense) of keeping the brake hand above the device, the likelihood of a catch would have been much greater. While lowering my partner, I did intentionally let go with both hands, and the device did lock up. Hands free, still definitely a no. But that is the only time I truly was able to get it to lock. Basically it degraded into my mind into a rich person's ATC. Sad.

The Pilot is like a Jul style device. A little clunky at first when using it because I hadn't used that style much in the past. It worked and caught falls fine. It did have the potential to feed rope back through the device when locked if the brake side of the rope was slack. I wasn't super impressed. If I wanted something between an ATC and a grigri, I'd get a megajul or a mammoth smart alpine so I could at least rappel with it as well. 

Overall, since I have the grigri2, I'll stay with it for sport climbing. If I start guiding more, perhaps a grigri+. If I am doing technical, hard multi pitch climbs the mega-jul is where I'd turn. I hope that helps a bit.

Slartibartfast · · Magrathea · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

Oh man, I'd love to try a Revo out for TR and lead soloing. If it turns out to be well built and functional, it'll pretty much be THE item on the market for these uses. If you're into roped soloing and want to be a trailblazer, it's a pretty exciting option.

If roped soloing isn't your bag, there's really no significant downside to a gri. For normal belaying, the best the Revo can offer is to catch you no matter what. Grigri already does that (caveat: don't be an idiot), so why pay extra?

Rearviewmirror · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 35
Parker WEbb wrote:

If I didn't know proper belay technique (or more Euro-style, no offense) of keeping the brake hand above the device

Ummm.. What? Not sure brake hand above the device can be described as "proper belay technique"

Raymond Moreno · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 140

About to make a purchase, but still have two questions:

The GriGri+ has an anti-panic handle. 

Did the GriGri2 have this “overpull the handle” problem that the GriGri+ is correcting?

Which one of these belay devices lower the climber better for indoor top roping? The Lifeguard or the GriGri’s?

Curious. 

Mitchell Dalton · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2017 · Points: 26

I use the MegaJul. It takes some getting used to but once dialed in, the thing is great belaying a leader or top roper. Rapping isn't amazing in the auto lock orientation. Pretty jerky. But if you flip it around you can use it just like an ATC. Just be sure to back it up with a prusik.

Parker Webb · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 120
Rearviewmirror wrote:

Ummm.. What? Not sure brake hand above the device can be described as "proper belay technique"

Sorry, poor wording on that one. Hence the forewarning I was doing this tipsy at night. 

The Revo catches better when you use the Euro style of keeping the brake hand above the belay device. Obviously that's not how you should belay. When using proper belaying technique bringing the brake hand back under the device, then the likelihood of it catching with the locking (non-ATC catching) mechanism is really low.

Parker Webb · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 120
Raymond Moreno wrote:

About to make a purchase, but still have two questions:

The GriGri+ has an anti-panic handle. 

Did the GriGri2 have this “overpull the handle” problem that the GriGri+ is correcting?

Which one of these belay devices lower the climber better for indoor top roping? The Lifeguard or the GriGri’s?

Curious. 

Can't say anything in regards to the Lifeguard. 

The GriGri2 doesn't have the overpull problem if you know how to use it. Newer climbers can be really excited and pull back too far too quick, and this is what the GriGri+ fixes. The GriGri+ does have the TR function which, while not needed, is a nice feature. Lowering with it definitely takes a little bit to get used to.

Rearviewmirror · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 35
Parker WEbb wrote:

Sorry, poor wording on that one. Hence the forewarning I was doing this tipsy at night. 

The Revo catches better when you use the Euro style of keeping the brake hand above the belay device. Obviously that's not how you should belay. When using proper belaying technique bringing the brake hand back under the device, then the likelihood of it catching with the locking (non-ATC catching) mechanism is really low.

Gotcha. So ironically it might work better with sloppy technique. That's a bummer if true (when it finally comes out!).

Alex Temus · · Lehi, UT · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 362
Raymond Moreno wrote:

About to make a purchase, but still have two questions:

The GriGri+ has an anti-panic handle. 

Did the GriGri2 have this “overpull the handle” problem that the GriGri+ is correcting?

Which one of these belay devices lower the climber better for indoor top roping? The Lifeguard or the GriGri’s?

Curious. 

Yeah, you could, in theory, pull back too far on the Lifeguard or grigri/grigri 2 and drop your climber. I've always just reminded my belay that if they start dropping me too fast, to let go of the handle. It's been fine.

As for how smooth the two are - I'd say the grigri 2 was a bit smoother than the Lifeguard, but the difference doesn't seem be that significant.

No assisted braking device I've tried is near as smooth to lower as an Air Traffic Controller (ATC).

David Lottmann · · Conway, NH · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 152

I think the GriGri+ is a lot more than "gimmicky". The belay modes and wider selection of usable (thinner) rope diameters over the GriGri 2 make it a solid choice in my opinion. You can see my full review with some video of these features here:

https://northeastalpinestart.com/2017/05/18/gear-review-petzl-grigri/

Raymond Moreno · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 140

Thanks, folks. 

I decided to go with the Mad Rock Lifeguard. 

Smaller, cheaper, lifetime guarantee, metal pull handle, and works equally well with various rope diameters. (I’m using a Mammut 9.5mm rope).

Two of the things that REALLY caught my attention were:

1) it Pay’s-out rope really easy. Easier than the GriGri...which is awesome for lead climbing. 

2) The other thing was that it worked almost almost exactly like an ATC device. 

Just received my Trango Vergo refund today, so the MR Lifeguard was also ordered today. I should have it in my hands within two days  

Lets wait and see  

Decision made  

Thanks for the input and insights.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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