The Firefly by DCMountaineering (quickdraw retrieval device)

Sam Miller wrote:

Uhhhhhh what

This

Sam Miller wrote:

Uhhhhhh what

I believe this system is what he is referring to.

Daniel McCormick wrote:

I believe this system is what he is referring to.

Yeah, probably should’ve just found this pic instead of the brief description. I was under the impression that this was a backup system people were more familiar with.

Matt T wrote:

Yeah, probably should’ve just found this pic instead of the brief description. I was under the impression that this was a backup system people were more familiar with.

Was having a hard time picturing that in my mind.. Thanks for the tip

John Wilder wrote:

Please don't leave links on bolts. They clog up the bolt, making it harder to clip for the next person, and they can rust shut, making them a huge pain to remove. 

Plenty of room on most hangers where i climb for a small link and a biner, or just clip the link and remove on rap. Re: rust, at Smith the link will be bootied in a few hours max, but is certainly a cobsideration for areas off the beaten path. 

The problem this is solving is not having to leave gear behind. It's a financial concern, not an education or safety concern. 

"Light-weight and easy to use, this is a must-have learning tool for the beginner and a necessary piece of safety equipment for the experienced climber."

It is not a learning tool, or a piece of safety equipment - certainly not a must-have or necessary one. 

It's a neat idea. Personally, I've bootied more bail gear over the years than I've left behind, and I firmly believe that no piece of gear should be so "precious" that you're reluctant to leave it behind when needed. But I can see some climbers using and enjoying this, perhaps even safely if you've done enough testing and if they are experienced enough to use it wisely. But marketing it as a learning tool for beginners? As necessary safety equipment? That's obviously false and misleading perhaps to the point of negligence. 

John Wilder wrote:

Your weight keeps the carabiner in place. There's no way you could rotate the carabiner off the bolt while you're weighting the draw with that tiny little pull line. 

I'd be afraid to use this. What happens if stuff (little pull cord/ropes) gets tangled and you need to unweight the rope, or get to a ledge and unweight it, when without realizing the pull cord is under tension and it pops off. I've never said this, but yer gonna die. I would guess that mostly noobs would be using this - dangerous. People that are feeling out their limits. Experienced folks would either be able to go bolt-to-bolt on something that they would consider a project, stick clip up it, or just leave a bail biner/link. There are ways to get down using a sling through a bolt that I would think most people know that doesn't leave gear behind. And the price? I'd say ive collected a few more bail biners than I have left behind - so basically I haven't paid anything to bali. I'm guessing this is a lot more than nothing, or even the cost of a few bail biners.

I love innovation - but brings to mind a solution without a real problem. I climb a fair amount and at a lot of places. I don't see people bailing that often, or bail biners on many routes.

John Hegyes wrote:

I just wanted to point out that in the video, the bailing climber is shown opening the gate of the carabiner that he is hanging from in order to attach the device. By opening the gate he loses 2/3 of the carabiner's strength. So if the fully rated 24 kN biner is downrated to 8 kN the climber is losing a significant safety margin to say the least. I get that this is an item of last resort and acknowledge that the climber assumes all risk in this process, but I think the manufacturer is really going out on a limb if they document this in the instructions. Maybe you should consult a product liability attorney before sticking your neck out like this.

Only for that moment the gate is open, and if you weigh more than roughly 1500 lbs, then well, you probably aren't climbing. 

In order to avoid hanging on an open carabiner - since the climber hasn't finished the route yet, other quickdraws should be hanging off the harness. Get another QD, clip into the same hanger - it is almost always possible, then you will be hanging off fully closed carabiner while fiddling with the proposed device.

John Hegyes wrote:

I just wanted to point out that in the video, the bailing climber is shown opening the gate of the carabiner that he is hanging from in order to attach the device. By opening the gate he loses 2/3 of the carabiner's strength. So if the fully rated 24 kN biner is downrated to 8 kN the climber is losing a significant safety margin to say the least. I get that this is an item of last resort and acknowledge that the climber assumes all risk in this process, but I think the manufacturer is really going out on a limb if they document this in the instructions. Maybe you should consult a product liability attorney before sticking your neck out like this.

Of all the concerns brought up in this thread, this is by far the least concerning, 8 kN is way way more than you could ever put on a draw while statically hanging from it, and even if you did somehow break the biner it would be no worse than the lead fall that you would have taken onto the bolt below anyway.

The real concern is that the device could possibly pull the quickdraw off when you release your weight  halfway down the route due to tramming in, bouncing, or whatever (which are very possible scenarios when trying to clean a difficult route).   

It's a cool idea, but as mentioned, it doesn't really solve any true problem, and it certainly opens up additional risk to the climber, especially to a newer climber who is more likely to purchase a device like this anyway. 

John Hegyes wrote:

I just wanted to point out that in the video, the bailing climber is shown opening the gate of the carabiner that he is hanging from in order to attach the device. By opening the gate he loses 2/3 of the carabiner's strength. So if the fully rated 24 kN biner is downrated to 8 kN the climber is losing a significant safety margin to say the least. I get that this is an item of last resort and acknowledge that the climber assumes all risk in this process, but I think the manufacturer is really going out on a limb if they document this in the instructions. Maybe you should consult a product liability attorney before sticking your neck out like this.

8kN is still more than most small cams are rated for dude. If you're just hanging a static load from it for 30 seconds while you set up the device you're gonnna be fine.

I would consider this if you make an easy means of throwing it up to me. No way on earth I'm carrying all that shit sport climbing

John Wilder wrote:

Please don't leave links on bolts. They clog up the bolt, making it harder to clip for the next person, and they can rust shut, making them a huge pain to remove. 

Sam Miller wrote:

Plenty of room on most hangers where i climb for a small link and a biner, or just clip the link and remove on rap. Re: rust, at Smith the link will be bootied in a few hours max, but is certainly a cobsideration for areas off the beaten path. 

With a short piece of webbing, one can tie the quicklink to the bolt hanger. It still leaves items behind, which doesn't look nice, but avoids the particular issues John mentions.

The website doesn't work for me.  

Who is going to carry all that? You would need about 30+ meters of that thin cord, assuming you might bail near the top of a 30-35 meter route on occasion. That thin cord is surely going to get tangled at some point when pulling/throwing/lowering and you will lose the whole kit and your draw. Terrifying cleaning draws on the way down, not knowing what is going on at that bolt. Even on overhanging routes is is common to have to bounce/boink/climb/unweight rope up to clean draws. I'd want to see something like this have years of SAFE use before I'd be convinced, and even then, Id rather carry a cheap light biner that can serve several purposes (including bailing). Mentally, I don't want to lug a contraption with the mindset of bailing. Women/Man up and send it, or lose a draw or biner.

Awesome! All these years I was wasting 1000s of $ leaving bail binners on moderate routes, no more! If you come up with a cam retrieval tool I'd buy it right away! This product is slightly better than slap chalk bag

My quick draw retrieval device is the inevitably better climber who is currently belaying me.

EDIT: You know what would be even sicker if you want to over-engineer it. A carabiner which opens upwards with an encrypted and secure one-channel remote control which opens it. Imagine what you can do with that. Bail off a climb easily. Always do full-length single rope rapells. Set it up to secretly make the top-rope anchor fall apart while your nemesis is hang-dogging. It's the perfect device.

Question for you Artem B. Would you re-use that sling that you pulled the (un-weighted) rope through? Also, this can only be done if you are within 1/3 of your rope length from the ground in normal situation. I've brainstormed ways to do this with a coated large diameter cable or wedge that is weighted on one side and tapered somehow, so that when you pull your rope through the basket hitched smooth cable (or whatever), it falls off of the bolt. Would be fail-safe and could only fall off once the rope is through.

As someone who makes his living reselling booty gear on MP I am strongly against contraptions like this.