Do you stick clip? Why or why not?

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Many people feel the first few moves of Classic are the crux, and they're unprotectable, with real ground fall potential you stick clip the first piton.

A lot of Gunks climbs have low poorly protected cruxes.  But stick clipping is rarely done - just not the traditional (in several senses) way of doing things.  However because of the typically slabby nature of the climbs (obviously there are ones with overhangs off the deck too) - especially the low crux sections - top roping them is common.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

An alternative to stick clipping the first/second bolts is to put down a boulder pad. Would this negate a redpoint according to the hard-liners, or do they insist that ankle-breaking has to be a possibility for a redpoint?

1. a stick clip is soooooo much easier to carry

2. only a tiny handful of eternally clueless n00bs cares. Think about it. One of the clueless voices about this is someone who is incorrect in 90% of his posts.

Marc801 C wrote:

2. only a tiny handful of eternally clueless n00bs cares. Think about it. One of the clueless voices about this is someone who is incorrect in 90% of his posts.

Oh I know, but it's somewhat entertaining to try to understand why people think the weird things they think.

Eric Engberg wrote:

A lot of Gunks climbs have low poorly protected cruxes.  But stick clipping is rarely done - just not the traditional (in several senses) way of doing things.  However because of the typically slabby nature of the climbs (obviously there are ones with overhangs off the deck too) - especially the low crux sections - top roping them is common.

I don't think traditional or not traditional has much to do with it--it's more that there's usually nothing to stick clip. Classic is a rare exception.

I say do what you feel comfortable with and disregard any judgment. Most of us aren't getting paid to do this amazing sport, for the exception of yours truly (brushing nails on my clothing). Jk not even close to quitting my day job but if you feel safe and not robbed of your own ethics who gives a damn. 

David Kerkeslager wrote:

I don't think traditional or not traditional has much to do with it--it's more that there's usually nothing to stick clip. Classic is a rare exception.

I've never dseen anyone use a stick on Classic.  Not on Marie Direct either which even makes more sense.

Eric Engberg wrote:

I've never dseen anyone use a stick on Classic.  Not on Marie Direct either which even makes more sense.

I think most Gunks climbers don't own a stick clip and even if they do, they don't bring it.

On Maria Direct, *I* was the stick clip once. My friend wanted to lead it, but she's very short and would have to be very committed to the move to even reach that pin. At 6', I could reach it easily from the good stance, so I bouldered up with a draw and a loop of her end of the rope.

Mark Waterous wrote:

Perfect. Alright, scenario two: I'm Inspector Gadget, do I still get the redpoint even if I clip the third and fourth bolt from the second, so long as the second is at hip level?

Hah! I actually watched Ian Stewart Green and his buddies "whip clip" almost all the bolts on "Melting" at the Hell Cave, UT. No stick clips, they were just having fun and whirly flipping the rope to try to clip as many of the fixed draws as they could. It was shocking how accurate those little fucks were lol, they got like the 1st 5 clips right easily and then a couple more with few tries.. no relation to this thread except how banal it is.

I don't use a stick clip, although my climbing partner does not agree with it and thinks it should be used. I know its not a popular opinion anymore, but I feel as though I haven't really lead the route properly and are cheating if you stick clip the first draw, as you are essentially toproping, not for a considerable distance before reaching the bolt. My home crag, Kangaroo Point in Brisbane, Australia is notorious for high first bolt and big runouts, with most climb's first bolts being at least 4 metres above the ground, but all routes 5.11a onwards have first bolts between 7-10 metres. Despite this, I still shun the use of a stick clip, having taken only small groundfalls from about 4 metres above the ground.

Jake Forker wrote:

I don't use a stick clip, although my climbing partner does not agree with it and thinks it should be used. I know its not a popular opinion anymore, but I feel as though I haven't really lead the route properly and are cheating if you stick clip the first draw, as you are essentially toproping, not for a considerable distance before reaching the bolt. My home crag, Kangaroo Point in Brisbane, Australia is notorious for high first bolt and big runouts, with most climb's first bolts being at least 4 metres above the ground, but all routes 5.11a onwards have first bolts between 7-10 metres. Despite this, I still shun the use of a stick clip, having taken only small groundfalls from about 4 metres above the ground.

In the 30 pages of this thread there are numerous posts about why this is both an outdated idea and unsafe. Sure, climb as you like, but as many others have said, you'll feel pretty foolish nursing a broken ankle for 6 months simply because of pride.

Marc801 C wrote:

In the 30 pages of this thread there are numerous posts about why this is both an outdated idea and unsafe. Sure, climb as you like, but as many others have said, you'll feel pretty foolish nursing a broken ankle for 6 months simply because of pride.

The argument is all about risk tolerance and risk mitigation.

@ Marc801 C sport climbing could be seen as outdated and unsafe, change the subject to "Do you top rope? Why or why not?" I am sure you would find yourself slipping into that sport climbing 'simply because of pride.'

Gummy wrote:

The argument is all about risk tolerance and risk mitigation.

@ Marc801 C sport climbing could be seen as outdated and unsafe, change the subject to "Do you top rope? Why or why not?" I am sure you would find yourself slipping into that sport climbing 'simply because of pride.'

I'm willing to defer to the route developer who intentionally placed the first bolt high with the expectation that it will stick clipped. Not stick clipping adds needless risk that was never intended to be there. The TR argument you propose is a false equivalence.

Marc801 C wrote:

I'm willing to defer to the route developer who intentionally placed the first bolt high with the expectation that it will stick clipped. Not stick clipping adds needless risk that was never intended to be there. The TR argument you propose is a false equivalence.

If the route was originally done sans stickclip and had been repeated many times sans stickclip and is currently mostly done sans stick clip - then I would feel that I have cheated myself by TR-ing to the first bolt.  But that's just me.  So it depends on what the local protocol is - especially historically but also factor in current practice.

Eric Engberg wrote:

If the route was originally done sans stickclip and had been repeated many times sans stickclip and is currently mostly done sans stick clip - then I would feel that I have cheated myself by TR-ing to the first bolt.  But that's just me.  So it depends on what the local protocol is - especially historically but also factor in current practice.

You do you. 

Ethics police come get me: I can place a cam with my stick clip.

Eli wrote:

Ethics police come get me: I can place a cam with my stick clip.

Excellent! I've placed stoppers with mine.

Petsfed wrote: If I wanted to risk injury for the purity of the line, I wouldn't be sport climbing. Indeed, the concept of risk for "purity" is a anathema to sport climbing. I stick clip most of the time, and I don't have any sponsors or fans to offend, so I feel no guilt.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Eric Engberg wrote:

If the route was originally done sans stickclip and had been repeated many times sans stickclip and is currently mostly done sans stick clip - then I would feel that I have cheated myself by TR-ing to the first bolt.  But that's just me.  So it depends on what the local protocol is - especially historically but also factor in current practice.

That's not what we're talking about. Nor are we talking about 5.6 opening terrain to the first bolt on an 11d climb.

Marc801 C wrote:

That's not what we're talking about. Nor are we talking about 5.6 opening terrain to the first bolt on an 11d climb.

Difficulty doesn't matter.  It's what is commonly done and more importantly what was historically done that's important to me.  I'm not suggesting everyone - or any one - needs to follow suit.

But I don't think that difficulty, or bad landings, or awkward falling positions have actually been defined pertinent to this thread.  And it would be silly to try to - its all relative to the climber's abilities.

I think it's dumb as hell when people develop hard routes with huge run outs or high first bolts (if intended to climb not stick clip) 

like a hard route... Any person is more likely to fall... So the route should be better protected if anything not worse.

I mean a 5.8 should still be well protected so that 5.8 level climbers can actually climb it but that goes even more for hard climbs IMO