Factor Two Fall and Anchor Failure - Darran Mountains, New Zealand
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A pretty rare event so I thought this deserved some attention. Surprised at the level of detail in the reporting at this early stage: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/91914495/kiwi-climbers-named-after-fatal-fall-near-fiordland (Despite the odd name. 'stuff' is actually one of NZ's prominent online news source.)
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Very sad. I came to post on MP as well because this is an unfortunate example of the worst-case scenario. Build good anchors, place gear early and often. |
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Sad news indeed. I wonder why they believe it was a factor 2, yet they were traversing. If traversing directly off the anchor, a factor 2 is not possible. Truly traversing horizontally, directly left or right, would be a factor 1. A rising traverse at 45 degrees would be much worse at 1.7. But, not a factor 2. Perhaps the route generally traverses, but has areas where the leader must climb directly above the belay at the beginning of the pitch. Very unfortunate, nonetheless. |
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A kiwi frind of mine posted a link to this FB. He climbed with one of the party in Jtree a few years back. what I found interesting in the article, as stated later on, was they were not sure if the party as ascending or decending. It also begs the question as to why not clip a "jesus piece"- clip the anchor as a first piece until the leader has his/her first piece in? Very sad- my condolences all who knew the lads. |
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jersey girl wrote: |
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I'm wondering more and more about these accident discussions... I know we talk about learning through analysis, but it's not always clear what is being "learned" through them: it's pretty intuitively obvious that a long leader fall directly onto the belayer is a seriously bad thing. But here I go anyway: in the case of a substantial fall, how much is gained by the leader clipping the anchor as a first piece? It seems like it would help the belayer to control the forces and protect the belayer from injury, but it seems like it would actually increase the load on the piece that was clipped because now the belayer is loading it via a pulley (the leader's draw) rather than just with his/her own body weight? I understand that it would shorten the fall, but in the case of a big fall this would be a fairly insignificant reduction in the fall factor. |
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J. Albers wrote: |
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If you're on solid bolts, which it seems these guys weren't, the added force from the pulley effect shouldn't cause the anchor to fail, unless it's going to fail regardless. For me, it comes down to what belay device or munter hitch my belayer is using and how much I trust their ability to catch a direct fall on them vs their ability to catch a fall through a redirect. |
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J. Albers wrote: |
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jersey girl wrote: |
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jersey girl wrote: It will put all of the force of the leader's fall onto the piece clipped. So it depends on the quality of that one placement. I only do this on super bomber placements. |
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Maybe "traversing" is used in the broadest sense, i.e., they were climbing various routes across the Darran Mountains, or enchaining a series of peaks. |
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J. Albers wrote: |
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Dave Kos wrote:
I agree. True, clipping a piece in the anchor may only reduce a factor 2 to a 1.7 or so. Still a violent situation. True, the belayer may get yanked into the anchor. Not good either. With a device that can catch a factor 2 fall, such as gri gri, the factor 2 may be better. 1. The gri gri won't get slammed into the piece and get opened. 2. The gri gri can catch a factor 2. But, with most other devices, the belayer is usually set up to brake downward. With a factor 2, the belayer needs to switch to braking upward, in an instant, with an extremely high force coming onto the belay, with a device that is very difficult to arrest a factor 2. It depends. |
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Dave Kos wrote: |
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Greg D wrote: Exactly. My take away from Will's post was that you need to use your brain and assess your particular situation. I wasn't disappointed at all, rather I appreciate Will's discussion of the nuances of various types of situations. I guess I find that refreshing in light of the climbing community's recent tendency towards wanting "rules" that they can swallow and brainlessly apply without adequate contemplation. |
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Greg D wrote: I am a tiny thing so I always account for the fact that I might get pulled into an anchor. However I was always taught to clip a Jesus piece because when you're 500 feet in the air it's best to fall onto something versus nothing. ( obviously it's best NOT to fall to all). I don't know anyone who doesn't tie into an anchor while belaying on a multipitch climb. |
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Either way, if the climber falls 2 meters above the belay its going to suck, but I'd much rather have the extra rope in the system, I really don't buy the article at all. |
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Greg D wrote: If your partner hasn't clipped a piece while climbing off of the belay, you should have your break hand already in an upward position to anticipate a fall below the device. If the first piece rips, then yeah, you gotta have quick reflexes. |
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smurray47 wrote: Let's do some math. To be generous with the forces, we'll assume you weigh 100kg. It takes roughly 1kn to lift 100kg one meter. So if you are lifted 1 foot, you reduce the load on the top piece by roughly .3kn in a frictionless system. That's not a whole lot. And chances are, you weigh less than that so the effect is even smaller. If you don't trust your belayers ability to catch a factor 2 fall, then the better solution would be to have the leader of the previous pitch continue past the anchor to place the jesus piece. That makes a factor 2 impossible unless the jesus piece blows, at which point you're back where you started. If you're worried the jesus piece might not hold, either place more gear until you feel good about it, or just bail. |
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eli poss wrote: I'll be the first to say that your physics is way wrong. |