Offset Cams

Matt Himmelstein wrote:I didn't expect this thread to devolve into a discussion about how Totems are the most amazing things ever.

Take it from aid climbers who have been bouncing on off sets and Totems for years get Totem regulars. I have been using off set cams, Master Cams and Aliens for years and once the Totems came along especially the yellow, blue and now black, no off set compares. They work perfect in parallel sided cracks and awesome in flares, pin scars, pods, two lobe placements in shallow cracks or pods. They work where no other come close. The yellow Totem has the same effective range as the Orange/Yellow master cam. Save your $$ and just go with Totem regulars. If you get into serious aiding in the future where you start eating up gear on pitches then go ahead and buy regular off sets to supplement your rack but I guarentee you will always reach for that Totem when anything tricky comes along.

baldclimber wrote: Is the stem aligned with the direction of fall or is it sticking out at a 90 degree angle?

Same as any other placement - ideally aligned with the direction of fall, but sometimes take what you can get.

Emmett Lyman wrote: Same as any other placement - ideally aligned with the direction of fall, but sometimes take what you can get.

That doesn't answer my question. Your description above of the crack you're placing the offset in leads me to believe the cam stem will be pointing out at 90 degrees. If so, users should be aware that most cam manufacturers strongly recommend against this. That being said, your're free to do whatever you want since it's your ass.

baldclimber wrote: That doesn't answer my question. Your description above of the crack you're placing the offset in leads me to believe the cam stem will be pointing out at 90 degrees. If so, users should be aware that most cam manufacturers strongly recommend against this. That being said, your're free to do whatever you want since it's your ass.

Well then my description above led you to the wrong conclusion. Shame on me.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:I didn't expect this thread to devolve into a discussion about how Totems are the most amazing things ever.

And I didn't expect to be arguing against them!

(I thought I was the biggest Totem shrill out there. But I'm not going to make claims that it is an offset cam when it clearly isn't.)

Yes, it is not an off set cam but it works better than any other off set cam out there in just about any placement. I have never had an off set cam work better in an off set or flared placement than a Totem in the same placement. It's been my experience that off set cams work good in pin scars and flares but Totems work great. I'm not reposing Totems and have nothing to gain by blowing wind up Totems skirt. I just know that when I'm hanging in my aiders and I need to reach for a piece that will give me confidence I'll reach for a regular Totem over a similar sized off set all day long.

... if you don't rack them up... you'll never use them. ;)

I suggest, you spend a full month racking all your offsets for every lead. If you want to leave gear on the ground, dump a standard cam instead of the comparable offset.

I believe you'll discover how versatile the offsets are. That placements where a standard cam fits, you can often find an equally good placement for a comparable offset.

Where I used to rack doubles, I've come to prefer the offsets, for their adaptability.

Nice topic to the OP!

I believe the original Totems we're marketed as the first cam for flaring cracks that isn't an offset. Performance equal to a traditional cam in the standard placement plus the ability to hold with only two head engaged. Could be the source of confusion.

Craig Childre wrote:... if you don't rack them up... you'll never use them. ;) I suggest, you spend a full month racking all your offsets for every lead. If you want to leave gear on the ground, dump a standard cam instead of the comparable offset. I believe you'll discover how versatile the offsets are. That placements where a standard cam fits, you can often find an equally good placement for a comparable offset. Where I used to rack doubles, I've come to prefer the offsets, for their adaptability.

+1, especially when climbing rock types that typically don't have perfect splitter cracks.

Applies to offset nuts as well.

Dave gives a good review on Totems. Worth the read.
davidallfrey.com/davidallfr…

Interesting how an offset thread turned into Totem fanaticism.

Being a recent owner of a set of Totems, I can say, geometrically speaking, there are many times I'd still prefer to fall on an offset in certain constrictions where it's seated how it's designed. I don't carry the offsets often because I rarely come across a time where it's the only protection option I have. Although, if I'm unfamiliar with the climb, I might throw a few on just in case. They've been nice a couple times, but most of the time I can find another nut or cam placement. But maybe I'm not climbing hard enough routes. -shrugs-

I like the totems, and I'm glad I got a set to double up with my c4s. They're fun to play with, stick really well, and their flexibility makes them versatile in otherwise poorer placements of stiffer stemmed cams. But they seem to have this reputation with people I've talked to of being an end-all magic device that renders others obsolete. Including offsets. I don't know. Just another tool in the toolbox personally.

Dustin Kramer wrote:there are many times I'd still prefer to fall on an offset in certain constrictions where it's seated how it's designed. I don't carry the offsets often because I rarely come across a time where it's the only protection option I have.

That is my thinking on racking. I have 24 cams, I am not bringing all of them when I do a multipitch route. Maybe I'll rack them on a single pitch where there a piton scars (Suicide Rock perhaps). I leave the big cams behind unless there is specific beta that I need a BD 4 or bigger, and then I bring a set of nuts and a bunch of hexes. Past that, I can't see myself racking 20 cams, so the offsets stay behind.

Generally, I take doubles of BD (or DMM equivalent) .3 to 2, and then rack a couple of smaller Metolius cams, then add a set of nuts and bunch of hexes (don't you dare tell me to leave the hexes behind). I end up with 15 or so cams plus the passive pro, and the offsets never make the cut.

There may be places where the offset would fit in, but never where they are the only pieces that would fit in. So maybe they are essential if I do some routes in Toualme, but am I going to run into significantly more pin scars there than I will at Tahquitz?

Matt Himmelstein wrote: That is my thinking on racking. I have 24 cams, I am not bringing all of them when I do a multipitch route. Maybe I'll rack them on a single pitch where there a piton scars (Suicide Rock perhaps). I leave the big cams behind unless there is specific beta that I need a BD 4 or bigger, and then I bring a set of nuts and a bunch of hexes. Past that, I can't see myself racking 20 cams, so the offsets stay behind. Generally, I take doubles of BD (or DMM equivalent) .3 to 2, and then rack a couple of smaller Metolius cams, then add a set of nuts and bunch of hexes (don't you dare tell me to leave the hexes behind). I end up with 15 or so cams plus the passive pro, and the offsets never make the cut. There may be places where the offset would fit in, but never where they are the only pieces that would fit in. So maybe they are essential if I do some routes in Toualme, but am I going to run into significantly more pin scars there than I will at Tahquitz?

I once heard someone say that when you need them, you'll know. Around here, I rarely need them, but when I do, they place way better than a totem would and I'm thankful to have them.

Meh.

Offset cams are SO bomber sometimes!

juss saying; i REALLY like my totem basic offsets.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:I didn't expect this thread to devolve into a discussion about how Totems are the most amazing things ever.

Essentially every MP thread devolves into a totem love fest...

Bro, do you even Totem???

I'm working on the boulder problem with a really tenuous heel hook. What shoe do you guys recommend?

TOTEM CAM BROTATO