Posting condition reports or not posting.. That is the question

I was reading Colorado's conditions thread and wow it's getting crowded over there. Then came posts about a guy who condemns conditions reports about ice routes. He got slammed and called names. The thing is I kinda agree with keeping what you know to your "inner circle" of partners.

I say conditions reports bring crowds, crowds bring PO grades and rants about gumbies and noobs. If you need the Internet to have a good day ice climbing I say you suck, stay in the gym, don't leave the city, or some other dumbass rude comment. On the other hand I enjoy checking out the pictures posted and finding out what's up from my desk at work. Plus it's nice to know that the 3 hour slog to get above treeline isn't for nothing... Especially this month! What do you say?

Share the info if you want. Keep your mouth shut if you that's what you prefer. But slagging on people who don't play by your rules is just being a dick.

(Not directing the dick comment at you Bill. As I recall it was from some crusty old timer who basically just seems bitter that more folks are coming into "his" sport, and he doesn't like it that he doesn't have the playground all to himself any more)

Depends on your goals here on the net: to only take and not give, or to give and take.

Why were you reading the Colorado conditions thread? Seems like you want it both ways. You want the internet for information, but then you want to be able to tell people who use the internet for information they suck and should stay in the gym. Look in the mirror Bill and repeat after me - I am Bill Kirby and I use the internet for climbing information. Therefore, by my own logic, I suck and should stay in the gym.

This years Colorado Ice Conditions thread has largely been rendered useless because the majority of the content has come from a few users mostly complaining about crowding at popular crags. (I would bet half the content comes from less than 10 - 15 users)

It has largely been replaced instead by an unassociated fb page where people simply post pictures, and complain much less about crowds and stuff being picked out etc.

Posting conditions reports on MP threads is fine imo provided that you lucked out and didn't climb some other guys piece of ice who is also active in the thread. If you did, you'll likely hear about either in the thread or in an offline PM.

Because of this I no longer post conditions updates to MP. I have limited my conditions reporting to only posting updates on the fb page and only if someone asks specifically.

I haven't decided yet how I feel. I've posted current pics and also have told lies or kept my mouth shut to keep the crowds away. I do not look on any website to find out what's in or what I should climb that day. I do get great beta from locals and guides but that comes with a lecture that ends with "loose lips sink ships"

T,

I hire guides a lot, by a lot I mean I pay my foreman more per day than MTB guides so.. The guides I hire give the best conditions reports at the beginning and end of the season. So no need for the net. During the season does anyone really need reports to plan out a day?

Gene,

Same as above but.. I live in Maryland! Looking at CO thread is too see ice porn:) I'm not peeping the MP to drive 24 hours west. Sorry leaving the plastic behind the minute we get cold over here.

That said, I'm still open to discussion. I do enjoy the community or I wouldn't post on MP. The thing is I've seen huge crowds turn routes into hooked out pegboards the week after someone posted how fat xyz is.

Shepido wrote:This years Colorado Ice Conditions thread has largely been rendered useless because the majority of the content has come from a few users mostly complaining about crowding at popular crags. (I would bet half the content comes from less than 10 - 15 users) It has largely replaced instead by an unassociated fb page where people simply post pictures, and complain much less about crowds and stuff being picked out etc. Posting conditions reports on MP threads are fine imo provided that you lucked out and didn't climb some other guys piece of ice who is also active in the thread. If you did, you'll likely hear about either in the thread or in an offline PM. Because of this I no longer post conditions updates to MP. I have limited my conditions reporting to only posting updates on the fb page and only if someone asks specifically.

That sucks that in your second season you're feeling this way. Don't get discouraged as the CO thread will get back to normal. Good luck out there

Still I can't believe someone would PM you about reporting conditions!

99% of the complainers are lazy punters who can't, or won't, work for a route. They're just angry the other punters discovered their lazy routes. PO5 is the mark of a punter's route.

I feel like you either get a really open scene, with a lot of crowding, or really closed scene (like in Idaho), where the best information about even the existence of formations is decades old.

Yes, the free exchange of information leads to crowding at the easily accessible, easily led, easily climbed formations.

The solution, then, is to get better, go further, find other formations. I've spotted stuff, from the road, in Poudre Canyon(!!) that I've literally never heard of, nor could I find information on it after I went looking.

Colorado ice is far from climbed out, but the lowest hanging fruit are all but picked out (pardon the pun) for sure.

Barter creates videos to give info to noobs (cool), then asks for donations (sure), and then posts PO threads and dictionaries (contradictory).

What is your purpose on a forum and in this world? Mine is to share knowledge and experience great things with good people.

Gunkiemike wrote:As I recall it was from some crusty old timer who basically just seems bitter that more folks are coming into "his" sport, and he doesn't like it that he doesn't have the playground all to himself any more)

Hmm, I wonder if that was directed at me. Bill and I did get off to a rough start but he's welcome in what's my neck of the woods any time. He can stay here and I'll get on whatever he wants with him.

frank minunni wrote: Hmm, I wonder if that was directed at me. Bill and I did get off to a rough start but he's welcome in what's my neck of the woods any time. He can stay here and I'll get on whatever he wants with him.

No Frank, it was last season and IIRC some VT/NH climber.

But you can still be crusty if you want. :-)

Gunkiemike wrote: No Frank, it was last season and IIRC some VT/NH climber. But you can still be crusty if you want. :-)

Thanks. I can't help being a crusty old curmudgeon now and then.

It's really helpful to have fresh information.... so you can make informed decisions about how to spend your valuable and limited free time.

People who are purposely trying to keep good climbing spots a secret, are kinda lame. Around here in NH there are so many wonderful, generous climbers who share all the info, hold nothing back, don't complain about others, post everything publicly and even go so far as to invite you to the "secret" crags.

It seems to me a duty of the community to facilitate the climbing of others. It's just the way of a good society.

Russ Keane wrote:It's really helpful to have fresh information.... so you can make informed decisions about how to spend your valuable and limited free time. People who are purposely trying to keep good climbing spots a secret, are kinda lame. Around here in NH there are so many wonderful, generous climbers who share all the info, hold nothing back, don't complain about others, post everything publicly and even go so far as to invite you to the "secret" crags. It seems to me a duty of the community to facilitate the climbing of others. It's just the way of a good society.

Are you implying that a good society needs others to spend their valuable and limited free time so that you don't have to? Whenever I hear the argument of "I have limited time, I drive from far away" I cringed. It's BS, get up and go, take a chance, get skunked, find something, but please stop whining me me me me me me me.

I actually enjoy conditions reports, I think of them as the Twitter of TR's, but I rarely use them as a base for my climbing decisions. NOAA is a far more reliable source for this.

No- I'm saying in a good society, people help each other. I realize we all drive from long distances to get to the climb. Everyone;s free time is limited. It's not about me me me -- Its about being a good citizen of the group and helping others reach their goals. If you can direct someone to the best thickest ice, or give them good directions through the woods to save them a day of lost heinous bushwacking, you have done your good service.

So are you saying, don't build cairns? Let the next group get lost? It's the same idea.

I think it is more fun to just go and find out for yourself.

A hike in the mountains is never a waste of time even if I do occassionally get skunked 'cause something's not in yet. When my pards and I head out under questionable conditions, I think of it as a data gathering trip where I have the chance to test my ability to correlate weather patterns with ice conditions.

Russ, I agree fully with you. Razzing those who share info and post reports is lame, and those shitty people who whine about TRs should in turn be ridiculed.

I love the hike and getaway more than anything, but sometimes there is little time for that. If only I were a dirtbag...

owen david wrote: Russ, why did you caption one of your climbing pics location: "Not telling where!! Some may know. If you've ventured way the hell up and tried this fantastic climb." Russ, if that qualifies as a "secret" then I guess in your own words you're "kinda lame". Really, if you're going to post two rants about sharing information then at least take a look at your profile and edit some things so you don't look like a complete hypocrite. In your climbing pic caption you're basically BRAGGING about "not telling where" a climb is. Really!? Shave that beard off your face boy. Beards are for MEN! Grrrr!

Busted!!!