How do you set up your anchors?

David Gibbs wrote: From this, do I take it correctly that you consider it to be reasonable-to-good anchor-creation practice to do exactly this: good quality for your area (SS or Ti) bolts, with mild/plated steel quick-links & chain for wear-reduction, with the expectation that these will be replaced?

It Depends (tm). As Eli mentioned above, sometimes the links are worn-out before they rust-out.

If your local area has an organization who's members maintain the hardware, then yes, you can choose mild steel links & chains and plan to replace them when needed.

eli poss wrote:Also, I have a question: If a hanger is slightly rusted but only where the quicklink contacts the hanger, is it safe to assume galvanic corrosion?

No, that would be highly unlikely.

1) Mild steels and stainless steels are not different enough for galvanic corrosion to proceed in most conditions climbers encounter,
2) The point of contact doesn't stay wet long enough,
3) With the link/chain hanging in air, there's no electric circuit for ions to follow.

It's likely just a bit of common rust.

20 kN wrote: It depends on how much you are willing to look around. You can get tool steel with a 60 hardness that has a strength of around 300,000 PSI. That would hold for sure. Likewise, on a more practical level, they manufacturer SAE "grade 9" bolts with a 180,000 PSI strength, and they are not expensive. mcmaster.com/#standard-cap-… If that does not work, it's certainly possible to find a very high strength alloy steel or tool steel option that would work, although it might have to be a custom job.

The problem is you need to get the two pins through two clevises as well so even with a 45mm ring there isn´t a lot of room. We can weld extra rings in (so three in a row) which gives us enough room but means destroying 3 rings which is a bit expensive really. For normal testing we use two huge steel plates with half-rounds welded on but only take them up to the 50kN.

John Byrnes wrote: No, that would be highly unlikely. 1) Mild steels and stainless steels are not different enough for galvanic corrosion to proceed in most conditions climbers encounter, 2) The point of contact doesn't stay wet long enough, 3) With the link/chain hanging in air, there's no electric circuit for ions to follow. It's likely just a bit of common rust.

I'd say it is likely a bit of common rust from the chain that has been physically transferred in water from the chain to the hangar.

We climbed Sunday (October 11, 2015) at Mt Charleston and I asked Julie to take some photos of the anchors and lead bolts on an easy slab we did. Unfortunately the photo quality is not very good.

The anchor bolts are plated 5 part Rawls 3/8 x 3" with plated repair links and 3/8 proof coil chain. Still shiny and they were placed about 2001 or 2002.

We did 3 routes and all the bolts were tight and look similar to the one pictured.

I'll try for more photos next time out. I think we have a couple more times climbing high before the weather closes us down.

Here's an anchor configuration I've settled on that is efficient with minimal hardware. Two hangers, two quick links, two steel biners with keeper bars, and one five link section of chain.

Tony Sartin wrote:Here's an anchor configuration I've settled on that is efficient with minimal hardware. Two hangers, two quick links, two steel biners with keeper bars, and one five link section of chain.

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I like what you did. One question: Why use a chain link to bring the two parts together at the bottom?

Cool setup Tony!

Thomas Beck wrote:Why use a chain link to bring the two parts together at the bottom?

I like a setup like this for long anchors on soft rock. Have you ever seen desert anchors in windy locations that have damaged the rock veneer in a circle around the anchor? It's less of an issue with anchors that have a single screw-link and a ring. Connecting the longer one to the shorter one as Tony did should help. I came up with a similar configuration for anchors that have two rings, but haven't installed one yet. I'll try to post a picture sometime (if I remember).

In response to your question Tom,
Connecting the bolts with the 5th chain link provides the anchor with more redundancy. Imagine that the bolt or the bolt hanger on the left side of the photo were to somehow become compromised. This anchor's configuration would allow you to remain clipped into two non-locking carabiners while you're hanging from the remaining bolt as opposed to just one non-locker. Alternatively, imagine that you suddenly became unclipped from one of the carabiners or one of the carabiners failed. Again, you would have greater redundancy in that while you now hang from a single carabiner, your anchor at least will still be comprised of two bolts.

We send to a few customers the chain built into the bolts (or hangers as appropriate) as a complete length so they can position the bolts in the best way for the rock and then build-up the lower-off point how they like. This one is 9 links for a customer with rock in horizontal bands and he wanted to get into two independent layers but it works for anything really. I´ve a climbing wall customer that takes them with 5 links and another that uses 7 links.

Those rams horns are awesome Jim, love the setups above.

Quick question, why do you make the setup all one contiguous system with chain instead of a couple mallions? We send out a more modular setup so that, as parts wear down, they can easily be replaced.

Is theft a big problem in Europe?

Really it was easier than putting in a joining ring or whatever and gives the installer the option of putting the lower-off part where they want it. Otherwise they have to specify the two leg lengths and work out a way of keeping the two together if that´s what they want, it´s a good system if the bolt positions are going to vary a lot between routes. It´s cheaper as well, I don´t have to cut the chain and chuck a link away and the installer only needs to change out the bimers or whatever when they are worn.
Most people have the normal inline welded-up chainset but these were an alternative for a couple of customers. Particularly for climbing walls the chains have to be joined anyway to pass the standard so it´s a cheaper way of making a Vee chainset, we weld the biners into the two lowest links rather than maillons and save on the joining ring, the biners have more seperation which makes them a bit easier to clip. Sort-of more redundant I guess as well.

Chris Vinson wrote:Those rams horns are awesome Jim, love the setups above. Quick question, why do you make the setup all one contiguous system with chain instead of a couple mallions? We send out a more modular setup so that, as parts wear down, they can easily be replaced. Is theft a big problem in Europe?

+1 - The Ramshorn inline is a nearly ideal setup. Only one part to replace, no moving parts, low costs replacement, adjustable leg lengths. Lots of win there.

Chris Vinson wrote: Is theft a big problem in Europe?

I think that's a good question. Depending where you go in the US, it could be a bummer to have that walk away.
That looks like a nice setup. I just wonder if it stays put?
I checked out your website and they look expensive. Do you have a US distributor like Fixe or Liberty Mountain?

tenesmus wrote: I think that's a good question. Depending where you go in the US, it could be a bummer to have that walk away. That looks like a nice setup. I just wonder if it stays put? I checked out your website and they look expensive. Do you have a US distributor like Fixe or Liberty Mountain?

Those prices include VAT. Contact Jim directly for sales - He'll ship US and does so with regularity. I was trying to put together a group order with some others but it fell through on my end. Jim is prompt with the emails. ~$22USD for 316SS Ramshorn chain set WITH 2x glue ins and chain is about as good as you'll do anywhere.

tenesmus wrote: I think that's a good question. Depending where you go in the US, it could be a bummer to have that walk away. That looks like a nice setup. I just wonder if it stays put? I checked out your website and they look expensive. Do you have a US distributor like Fixe or Liberty Mountain?

Theft isn´t much of a problem generally in Europe, basically there´s just so many bolts out there that one or two missing wouldn´t be noticed.
To steal a pigtail you need to carry a hammer as they are an interference fit on the chain but for a few customers we weld them shut, to remove them you need a hammer and cold chisel then to cut the weld.
We´ve actually dropped the price on pigtails as we´ve re-tooled and can make them faster, we are discussing right now with an interested party on distribution in the USA so can´t say what they would cost through them but probably $8-$9.
There´s a limit to how cheap ramshorns can be made, there´s a lot(230g) of stainless steel in one and they don´t bend that easily!
The chainset above with a ramshorn has 967g of material so just for the basic metal about $7 without starting to actually make the thing, shipping or providing a mark-up for a distributor.

Be sure to let us know when they're available through your new distributor. Seems like a great price for the chain sets.

Here is an anchor on Shunes buttress 11+ IV that I equipped/beefed up.

I really like the stainless cable for cutting weight on walls.

Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote:Here is an anchor on Shunes buttress 11+ IV that I equipped/beefed up. I really like the stainless cable for cutting weight on walls.

I presume you added the Wave Bolt? It's not very common that I see someone use part glue-ins, part expansion bolts on one anchor. ;)

you presume correctly. I cant imagine a reason to do a mixed anchor from the get go.