Left-Handed Belay w/ A GriGri

"Brake/cam with the right hand, feed with the left. That is how the device is designed. There is no other way to use it."

Wrong. I belay left handed with my gri gri all the time, and I'm pretty sure my method is safer than the Petzl right hand method.

You people crack me up. I'm naturally right handed, but because of a birth defect, I had to learn to do most tasks left handed. I belay lefty with a grigri in its normal orientation without any issue.

Seems like this belongs here:

petzl.com/en/Sport/VIDEO---…;l=US#.VXzM-kbLL-s

There is an alternative way to what I am reading here, and please explain to me if I'm doing something dangerous. Instead of using the belay loop, use the tie-in loops (both legs and waist loops), that way, you can put the grigri in an orientation that the lip faces down instead of right, and the brake line faces LEFT instead of  down. Hell, the Alpine Bod Harness doesn't have a belay loop anyway, and in the process, we skip a link in the chain, making the system theoretically safer.

Please, correct me if I'm risking my climbing partners' life. Thank you!

Edit: I use an auto-locking carabiner with a smooth brass gate lock to avoid any friction with the loops.

That's why it's called ....strange ;)

and everyone knows lefties think in their right mind

Very useful thread for us lefties! I don't know if people are still following this, esp. any Petzl reps, but please chime in if you have any thoughts.

My story:

For a long time (>19 years - perhaps not so long for some), I had used a BD Alpine Bod harness exclusively in the gym(s) and any outside toproping. So, using a Grigri left handed was simple and never controversial. I just clipped it  (into the belt and leg loops) so that the climber side was to the right and belay side on the left. I went through many rounds of belay checks at multiple gyms (including a couple of separated years of belaying kids in a local climbing league at multiple gyms) and some outside (toprope and trad multipitch) climbing with multiple partners. All of the belay checkers and partners over the years were happy as far as I know. (I never dropped any nor recall scaring any of them... they always came back for more, and I never heard any complaints.)

The Alpine Bod was looking old and outdated and (although still looking structurally fine), and I decided to start using a more "conventional" harness, with a belay loop, in the gym. Being so used to clipping into a harness with no belay loop, and to the orientation and "feel" of the Grigri that way, I clipped in the same way (carabiner through the belt and leg loops ...as I also had with another harness that I used mostly for trad climbing outside). Well over a year of regular climbing at the gym went by with no complaints from the gym staff. Then ~2 months ago, one staff member stopped me and insisted that not using the belay loop was all wrong because it causes tri-axial loading of the carabiner. I went away and figured out what he was talking about. OK - there is a possibility that tri-axial loading could occur when catching a fall, and in that situation a carabiner might be good only at half of its nominal force rating. My recollections, which seemed to hold up after checking again were that the leg loop essentially always bunches up with the belt loop in the carabiner, and tri-axial loading happens so rarely that I have never actually seen it (in that situation). (And... the Alpine Bod is still made, sold and used.) Still, given that there is a non-zero possibility that it might happen, and gym policy is gym policy (to the extent that it stays the same from week to week).... OK - I'll use the belay loop.

So, (to the topic of this thread), how should a lefty like me use a Grigri (now Grigri 2) with a belay loop? I tried out the possible ways I could think of, and came up with the one that seemed and felt best for me. That turned out to be option 1) as describe by slim in the Jun 18, 2012 posting:

"1) set it up so that the rope going to the climber comes out the bottom 'hole' (ie folded over plate is on the left side). this setup is similar to how you have it set up when rope soloing."

and by

Mark K, also on  Jun 18, 2012:                              
"It is extremely easy to belay left handed with a grigri. Obviously, there is only one way to properly thread the device: climbers side next to the little climber symbol, and brake side next to the little fist. Now here is where lefties switch it up: instead of orienting the grigri so that the color side is up (making it so the brake side is on the right and climber side is on the left), orient it so that the trigger side is up (making it so the brake side is on the left and climber side is on the right). Now belay just like right hander would with a grigri, but with opposite hands."

Great! This way felt good. My hands - left had as the belay hand and right hand operating the lever when lowering (which have many hours worth of muscle memory working that way, which ought to count for something) - are doing what they are used to and also, this way works really well for varying the amount of "wrap" of the rope over the smooth metal part of the Grigri if fine control of the friction is ever needed.

~4 weeks went by with happy partners and no complaints from the gym staff.

Then ~3 weeks ago, suddenly one of the staff tells me that this is backwards and I can't do it that way. (My best guess - with concurrence by my partner, who was present for the lively discussion... and the gym manager, whom we all agreed should intervene, was that the staff member was claiming that the Grigri was actually threaded backwards. This despite the fact that at this gym, the belay carabiners are taped and the Grigris are all screwed shut so that the setup can't be changed without some time and some tools.) He was also convinced that the ~45 degree twist that I was putting in my belay loop while lowering - to keep the rope cleanly on the smooth metal part of the Grigri - was weakening either the belay loop or the harness.

Eventually, in the discussion involving the four of us, I asked what were Petzl's instructions for belaying left-handed with a Grigri. The manager found and showed me the video at

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/VIDEO---Specific-left-handed-technique

After looking at it, I noticed, and expressed a concern that at least one aspect of that "technique" seems a little sketchy. That is, that in catching the fall, the rope is going over the handle. If the rope is spending time on the handle side, then (at least theoretically) there is more of a chance that in a fall it will hook under then handle and cause the cam to unlock. So, the manager told me that for that week, I could belay the way I had been. All fine the following week. The week after that (which is now last week) the manager came up to me, seeming as if his patience was wearing thin, and told me that I can't belay that way. "I'm not going to debate this... we need uniformity." It turns out also, that they seem to train all of the new climbers (at least those with harnesses with conventionally oriented belay loops) to belay right handed. I must have "slid" through on that one because when I was belay checked by them, it was always with an Alpine Bod harness. I have read that some gyms really are worried about the tri-axial loading issue and are requiring harnesses with belay loops.

So, the allowable methods at this gym seem to be either belay right handed or as in the Petzl video... Some gyms (e.g., the one I go to) seem to need the backup of either "uniformity" so that staff can recognize issues just by quickly seeing any differences from the norm (without needing to check closely) or of something specifically shown as a legitimate technique by the manufacturer.  (Doing something that the manufacturer, Petzl in this case, has never actually said is wrong in their material is not sufficient.)

That's the story. Some (of my) conclusions: There seem (to me) to be several correct (in the sense that they are safe) ways for lefties to belay with a Grigri. To my mind, the method shown in the Petzl video a (at least if one follows all of it) has a significant flaw. Also, some of these ways may not be acceptable to gym staff and managers.

Sorry about the very long post. Any comments, especially about potential risks in any of the left-handed belay techniques given in this thread or on the integrity of a belay loop with a small amount (up to 45 degrees) of twist, would be of interest.

like i said a couple years ago (and basically every couple years since the grigri was invented...) it never ceases to amaze me how many people would be still living in caves if they had to do any thinking for themselves....

I'm left handed. I just learned to belay with my right hand, it works fine.

My GF is left handed, she just feeds the rope from the left side, by the handle, it works fine. 

To call a Grigri left or right handed is like calling a piano right handed. Or a kitchen mixer. Left and right handed has to do with preference and dominance for doing one-handed things that require a large degree of coordination. Pulling rope through a GriGri and pushing down on a cam to feed slack isn't any great feat. Learn to use the tool. Properly. End of story.

I'm a lefty, FWIW.

Andris Dimits wrote: Very useful thread for us lefties! I don't know if people are still following this, esp. any Petzl reps, but please chime in if you have any thoughts.

My story:

For a long time (>19 years - perhaps not so long for some), I had used a BD Alpine Bod harness exclusively in the gym(s) and any outside toproping. So, using a Grigri left handed was simple and never controversial. I just clipped it  (into the belt and leg loops) so that the climber side was to the right and belay side on the left. I went through many rounds of belay checks at multiple gyms (including a couple of separated years of belaying kids in a local climbing league at multiple gyms) and some outside (toprope and trad multipitch) climbing with multiple partners. All of the belay checkers and partners over the years were happy as far as I know. (I never dropped any nor recall scaring any of them... they always came back for more, and I never heard any complaints.)

The Alpine Bod was looking old and outdated and (although still looking structurally fine), and I decided to start using a more "conventional" harness, with a belay loop, in the gym. Being so used to clipping into a harness with no belay loop, and to the orientation and "feel" of the Grigri that way, I clipped in the same way (carabiner through the belt and leg loops ...as I also had with another harness that I used mostly for trad climbing outside). Well over a year of regular climbing at the gym went by with no complaints from the gym staff. Then ~2 months ago, one staff member stopped me and insisted that not using the belay loop was all wrong because it causes tri-axial loading of the carabiner. I went away and figured out what he was talking about. OK - there is a possibility that tri-axial loading could occur when catching a fall, and in that situation a carabiner might be good only at half of its nominal force rating. My recollections, which seemed to hold up after checking again were that the leg loop essentially always bunches up with the belt loop in the carabiner, and tri-axial loading happens so rarely that I have never actually seen it (in that situation). (And... the Alpine Bod is still made, sold and used.) Still, given that there is a non-zero possibility that it might happen, and gym policy is gym policy (to the extent that it stays the same from week to week).... OK - I'll use the belay loop.

So, (to the topic of this thread), how should a lefty like me use a Grigri (now Grigri 2) with a belay loop? I tried out the possible ways I could think of, and came up with the one that seemed and felt best for me. That turned out to be option 1) as describe by slim in the Jun 18, 2012 posting:

"1) set it up so that the rope going to the climber comes out the bottom 'hole' (ie folded over plate is on the left side). this setup is similar to how you have it set up when rope soloing."

and by

Mark K, also on  Jun 18, 2012:                              
"It is extremely easy to belay left handed with a grigri. Obviously, there is only one way to properly thread the device: climbers side next to the little climber symbol, and brake side next to the little fist. Now here is where lefties switch it up: instead of orienting the grigri so that the color side is up (making it so the brake side is on the right and climber side is on the left), orient it so that the trigger side is up (making it so the brake side is on the left and climber side is on the right). Now belay just like right hander would with a grigri, but with opposite hands."

Great! This way felt good. My hands - left had as the belay hand and right hand operating the lever when lowering (which have many hours worth of muscle memory working that way, which ought to count for something) - are doing what they are used to and also, this way works really well for varying the amount of "wrap" of the rope over the smooth metal part of the Grigri if fine control of the friction is ever needed.

~4 weeks went by with happy partners and no complaints from the gym staff.

Then ~3 weeks ago, suddenly one of the staff tells me that this is backwards and I can't do it that way. (My best guess - with concurrence by my partner, who was present for the lively discussion... and his manager, who we all asked to intervene, was that the staff member was claiming that the Grigri was actually threaded backwards. This despite the fact that at this gym, the belay carabiners are taped and the Grigris are all screwed shut so that the setup can't be changed without some time and some tools.) He was also convinced that the ~45 degree twist that I was putting in my belay loop while lowering - to keep the rope cleanly on the smooth metal part of the Grigri - was weakening either the belay loop or the harness.

Eventually, in the discussion involving the four of us, I asked what were Petzl's instructions for belaying left-handed with a Grigri. The manager found and showed me the video at

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/VIDEO---Specific-left-handed-technique

After looking at it, I decided, and pointed out my concern that at least one aspect of that "technique" seems a little sketchy. That is, that in catching the fall, the rope is going over the handle. If the rope is spending time on the handle side, then (at least theoretically) there is more of a chance that in a fall it will hook under then handle and cause the cam to unlock. So, the manager told me that for that week, I could belay the way I had been. All fine the following week. The week after that (which is now last week) the manager came up to me seeming a little angry and told me that I can't belay that way. No debates... "we need uniformity." It turns out also, that they seem to train all of the new climbers (at least those with harnesses with conventionally oriented belay loops) to belay right handed. I must have "slid" through on that one because when I was belay checked by them, it was always with an Alpine Bod harness. I have read that some gyms really are worried about the tri-axial loading issue and are requiring harnesses with belay loops.

So, the allowable methods at this gym seem to be either belay right handed or as in the Petzl video... Some gyms (e.g., the one I go to) seem to need the backup of either "uniformity" so that staff can recognize issues just by quickly seeing any differences from the norm (without needing to check closely) or of something specifically shown as a legitimate technique by the manufacturer.  (Doing something that the manufacturer, Petzl in this case, has never actually said is wrong in their material is not sufficient.)

That's the story. Some (of my) conclusions: There seem (to me) to be several correct (in the sense that they are safe) ways to belay left handed with a Grigri. To my mind, the method shown in the Petzl video a (at least if one follows all of it) is not one of the safe ways. Also, some of these ways may not be acceptable to gym staff and managers.

Sorry about the very long post. Any comments, especially about potential risks in any of the left-handed belay techniques given in this thread or on the integrity of a belay loop with a small amount (up to 45 degrees) of twist, would be of interest.

Longest post ever, Rgold has some catching up to do...... ;)

I'm left handed, ish.....I live in a right handed world though.

I eat and write left handed.

I belay, shoot, throw, and fish right handed.

I swing a hammer and use most hand tools equally well with either hand but will favor the right most of the time.

I'm right eye dominant.

It's important to be adaptive,.... ;)

I use both hands, so...I'm amphibious. :)

Eugenio Rios wrote:

There is an alternative way to what I am reading here, and please explain to me if I'm doing something dangerous. Instead of using the belay loop, use the tie-in loops (both legs and waist loops), that way, you can put the grigri in an orientation that the lip faces down instead of right, and the brake line faces LEFT instead of  down. Hell, the Alpine Bod Harness doesn't have a belay loop anyway, and in the process, we skip a link in the chain, making the system theoretically safer.

Please, correct me if I'm risking my climbing partners' life. Thank you!

Edit: I use an auto-locking carabiner with a smooth brass gate lock to avoid any friction with the loops.

That's a resurrection of a very old thread.

Never tried it your way. It should work, but I don't like using tie-in points for belaying if the harness has a belay loop, like most harnesses do these days (cue in 10 more pages of discussion).

But I am left-handed, and I belay with my left hand on the brake side, and the right hand feeding the slack, with a gri-gri all the time. I can belay the right-handed way on it, and can demonstrate the current official Petzl-approved gri-gri technique when needed. But I prefer my way. I slide my brake hand along the rope to create a loop of slack, and then pull that slack out with the right hand, no need to even pinch the cam. But if I had to, if the rope is really thick, or something, i briefly pinch the gri-gri between thumb and index fingers, while keeping the last three fingers on the brake.

FrankPS wrote: I use both hands, so...I'm amphibious. :)

I believe you mean anglodextribus.......

Amphibious is when you lie but don't care that you did......... ;)

John Barritt wrote:

I believe you mean anglodextribus.......

Amphibious is when you lie but don't care that you did......... ;)

Thank you. You know all those big words!

Lena chita wrote:

 But if I had to, if the rope is really thick, or something, i briefly pinch the gri-gri between thumb and index fingers, while keeping the last three fingers on the brake.

No matter if you are right or left handed, there's no reason to "pinch" the GriGri.  In the case of a sudden unexpected fall while you are paying out slack, your gut reaction may be to pinch the grigri even harder.  It is possible to pinch it with enough force that even with a firm grip on the brake strand (with the last 3 fingers) the cam won't engage.  

Pinching the GriGri is possibly the cause of Ashima's accident (impossible to know for sure), and possibly other accidents as well.  When the 1st gen GriGri was realeased Petzl's recommended technique for fast feeding actually involved pinching the grigri between your palm and pinkey finger.  Petzl changed those recommendations in response to some mishaps reported by climbers (this was long ago, and I can't cite specific mishaps)

To fast feed, just apply downward (towards your belay loop) pressure to the cam with your thumb (exactly how/where Petal recommends) while securing the brake strand with all 4 of your fingers.  Notice that you aren't squeezing the grigri, you are just pushing it towards your belay loop, so that the carbiner is loose (not pulling) on the belay loop.  If the climber falls while you are doing this, your gut reaction will be to clench the brake strand.  

cyclestupor wrote:

No matter if you are right or left handed, there's no reason to "pinch" the GriGri.  In the case of a sudden unexpected fall while you are paying out slack, your gut reaction may be to pinch the grigri even harder.  It is possible to pinch it with enough force that even with a firm grip on the brake strand (with the last 3 fingers) the cam won't engage.  

Pinching the GriGri is possibly the cause of Ashima's accident (impossible to know for sure), and possibly other accidents as well.  When the 1st gen GriGri was realeased Petzl's recommended technique for fast feeding actually involved pinching the grigri between your palm and pinkey finger.  Petzl changed those recommendations in response to some mishaps reported by climbers (this was long ago, and I can't cite specific mishaps)

To fast feed, just apply downward (towards your belay loop) pressure to the cam with your thumb (exactly how/where Petal recommends) while securing the brake strand with all 4 of your fingers.  Notice that you aren't squeezing the grigri, you are just pushing it towards your belay loop, so that the carbiner is loose (not pulling) on the belay loop.  If the climber falls while you are doing this, your gut reaction will be to clench the brake strand.  

a lot of assumptions in this post.....

Eldrid megajul

Yes - sorry again about the very long post. Thanks to anyone who read any of it. I'm glad for the thread, because it showed that at least a couple of other people were using the method I liked, and no documentation of any potential dangers associated with it. I agree also that it's important to be able to adapt, and I'll probably end up having to belay "right-handed" at the gym.... I have certainly belayed right handed (albeit mostly with a Trango Tube, or an ATC) when tied in to a hanging anchor that had me oriented so I either had to do this or it was way more ergonomic, but I generally prefer the feeling of security of using the (long built-up) muscle memory of my left hand as the belay hand.

Born right handed, missing my right hand and belay just fine left handed on a grigri.

slim wrote:

a lot of assumptions in this post.....

Like what?   The stuff about pinching being bad? (the whole point of the post)    Are you really going to argue that pinching the grigri is ok?