El Potrero Chico for dummies (versus JT Nat. Park)
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Hi all |
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Can't comment on Potrero Chico... |
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PM'd you |
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Hola, |
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I don't want to be too inflammatory, but Max Forbes wrote:...In the US, a sport route is defined as any route that does not require the placement of traditional gear (stoppers, cams.. etc)...is totally incorrect and displays your lack of experience. It is not a crime to be inexperienced. However, posting misleading information on a website is pretty fucking stupid. Greg's post above explains things pretty well (except he forgot NC, where slab = fear), so I won't repeat the details. Suffice to say, bolts does not = sport in the US. IME, EPC is bolted pretty liberally. I would not call the big multi-pitch routes "sport," but I never felt runnout or scared on any route the two times I was at EPC. YMMV. Cheers, Alipio! I hope you have a great trip. |
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Ed Wright wrote: We actually don't consider the multi-pitch routes in the Potrero to be "sport climbing".Thanks for the reply. This is how most of the EPC routes are described here in Mountain Project. Do you know why? |
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Alipio Loyola wrote: Thanks for the reply. This is how most of the EPC routes are described here in Mountain Project. Do you know why?Ed can jump in here and correct me if I am wrong. "Sport" usually implies single pitch with bolts closely spaced. At EPC, the most climbed routes are over 6 pitches and require multiple rappels to descend. With that in mind, the level of commitment required to complete these routes is significantly different that what you would find at your typical "sport" crag. Like I said above, although very long, the routes at EPC are almost always reasonably bolted. Lots of folks with little muti-pitch experience go to EPC and have a blast learning on the relatively easy routes there. Again, I would not call these routes "sport," but they are pretty close. Best of luck with your trip. |
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Many thanks to everyone that helped! Good to know that my confusion makes sense since the photos and infos I found about EPC did not fit to my reference of sport climbing. |
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I have been to both Joshua Tree and many times to the Potero. For me, there's just no comparrison. I would go to Potrero Chico any day. I just like limestone much more than the rock at J-Tree. I also like the vibe down there more, too. |
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If anyone is looking for a AMGA Certified Guide for El Potrero Chico, I live there half the year. More info here: El Potrero Chico Guides |
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Everything here is peaceful and safe. |
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I am surprised to see a debate here about whether or not EPC is sport climbing. If I go on a rock climbing trip and I leave the trad gear at home, and all I am bringing for protection is a rack of sport and alpine draws, then hell yeah, I am going sport climbing. |
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Ed Wright wrote:Everything here is peaceful and safe. Climbers are arriving every day so the 2014-2015 season is under way.Is the route there also safe? I really wanna check Potrero Chico out... |
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Greg Opland wrote:There are all kinds of bolted routes all over the US with super long runouts between bolts that would NEVER be considered sport routes ..On Mountain Project, I've seen a lot of routes that were patently NOT sport routes, but had been marked as such. I try to correct them when I have time.As an administrator, you could start clearing up the confusion pretty easily with Mountain Project forum descriptions! Sport Climbing Bolts. Yummmmmmm. Trad Climbing Bolts? What are those? |
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My sportclimbing comments above still stand, but yes, I agree that some old school bolted routes (such as are common at one of my home crages - the South Platte) should not be considered sport routes. However, on most of those routes I am brining a trad rack, hoping to find marginal protection along the way which may or may not exist. |
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I hope the original OP isn't confused by this language debate! Language is defined by those who use it, speaker and listener. I think these definitions below most broadly used: |
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Id say the biggest difference between EPC and JTree is the climbing. Limestone vs Quartz Monzonite (very, very similar to granite). A lot of granite snobs don't like limestone and vice versa. Also, EPC tends to be vertical walls with few cracks and JTree tends to be less steep with lots of technical cracks and slab climbs. There are of course many exceptions to these generalizations. |
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Greg, you are right. A perfect example of an all bolt non-sport climb would be Serpentine on Suicide Rock in Cali. Or the third pitch on Bee Line in the Stronghold. |
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Greg Opland wrote: I'm sorry, this is not the definition of sport climbing, no matter how many of you fairly new climbers learned it that way at some point. The (sorry) traditional definition of Sport climbing is a route that is bolt protected well enough so that the focus of the route is more on the gymnastic or physical aspect of the route instead of on the protection aspect (consequences of a fall). A traditionally bolted route in Tuolumne Meadows (Yosemite) would NEVER be referred to as a sport route. Ever. Most especially by someone from Europe.I'm sure historically you are correct. But times change and definitions evolve. American English is different from British English, even though it originated from GB. So, the proper term for bolted Tuolummne Meadows routes is "traditionally bolted," meaning, the bolts are spaced farther apart than the 10-15' standard fare, yet no trad gear is taken. What did people call traditionally bolted routes prior to the sport bolting of today to distinguish it from trad? From a logistics perspective confining "sport" to those which are well bolted leaves a lot of room for interpretation, e.g. a shorter person may find a routes not well bolted whereas a taller person might (i.e. the bolts are not in a good clipping stance) I understand your need to preserve the original interpretation. People misuse words all the time, and to someone who knows the difference, it is annoying. The word "since" is not interchangable with the word "because." "Since" is associated with time, and is not a cause and effect. People also interchange the words "jealous" and "envy" but they originally had different meanings. Envy is when you want what someone else has, but jealousy is when you're worried someone's trying to take what you have (from vocabulary.com). I still understand what the speaker is saying, and dictionary.com has been updated to reflect the common-use, though originally erroneous, defintions. I appreciate the historical perspective. If nothing else, it may be useful down the road so I can press for further clarification and don't need to have this conversation about definitions. Thanks! |
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So according to Christiney a bolted climb with 50 foot run-outs is still a 'sport' climb. Yeah, sure. |
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Tradster wrote:So according to Christiney a bolted climb with 50 foot run-outs is still a 'sport' climb. Yeah, sure.Christiney, you didn't address this scenario. I've done 50-75 foot run-outs between bolts. trust me, it isn't a sport climb by anyone's definition. If you say this type of climb is a sport climb, then you are talking out your ass. |