New DMM belay devices

http://dmmclimbing.com/news/2014/07/new-products-outdoor-friedrichshafen-2014/

The Grip looks really weird. Not sure I can tell what's going on from just the pictures...

Bearbreeder,

Are you going to obtain one of these and do a review here at the MP? I belive many of us here would appreciate your input.

Looks like I need to make space in the gear room, but I'm a whore for techy-type-thingamabobs and love the mechanics of all types of gizmos. I collect stuff - sue me! :)

bearbreeder, aren't you a big fan of the mammut smart? what do you think of the alpine up? I was looking at one in the climbing shop the other day, guy at the counter swears by it. I'm an ATC/GriGri2 man myself. Not looking for the next fancy new thing, but can appreciate innovation and new ideas if they're worth something.

As a general rule, I like DMM's stuff.

Trying to figure out comparisons to products I'm more familiar with:

Pivot = ATC Guide that somehow provides for easy lowering?

Mantis = ATC XP? (I don't see any difference from the picture.)

And like John, I can't tell what's going on with the Grip.

john l. wrote:The Grip looks really weird. Not sure I can tell what's going on from just the pictures...

It looks pretty similar to an ATC, but when loaded and the rope strands are pulled apart (eg. climber and brake sides) it splits open, causing the side closest to the biner to close and pinch down on the rope/biner. I'd expect it to operate the same way as an ATC but just with a bit more stopping power. At least that's what I'm guessing...

As for the Pivot, I wonder how much of a difference that pivot point actually makes (vs Reverso or ATC Guide) when belaying direct off the anchor. You'd think the fact that it's connected to a more-or-less circular biner would give it enough "pivot" room to begin with, no?

I probably wont get one of these ... I got enough smarts to last me a few years !!!

As to the alpine up ... Ive only used the clickup so can only speak to that

The click up has the most natural belaying position of any assisted locking device ... More so than the smart

Its basically just like belaying with an atc except when you need to unclick it or lower

For a gym or cragging environment it works well

The problem in canuckistan is that its not widely available and cost decently more than a smart

;)

Ian Stewart wrote: It looks pretty similar to an ATC, but when loaded and the rope strands are pulled apart (eg. climber and brake sides) it splits open, causing the side closest to the biner to close and pinch down on the rope/biner. I'd expect it to operate the same way as an ATC but just with a bit more stopping power. At least that's what I'm guessing... As for the Pivot, I wonder how much of a difference that pivot point actually makes (vs Reverso or ATC Guide) when belaying direct off the anchor. You'd think the fact that it's connected to a more-or-less circular biner would give it enough "pivot" room to begin with, no?

Ah, thanks. I thought that it would split, but that would result in the bend being straightened. I didn't notice the part that pinches on the two sides of the rope. Makes sense now.

I agree about the pivot.

I'm pretty sure that the "Grip" was designed by the sentient computer system Skynet

BigFeet wrote:Bearbreeder, Are you going to obtain one of these and do a review here at the MP? I belive many of us here would appreciate your input. Looks like I need to make space in the gear room, but I'm a whore for techy-type-thingamabobs and love the mechanics of all types of gizmos. I collect stuff - sue me! :)

I´ll be getting them to test soon, the Grip is still in pre-production though.
The Mantis is just a clssic plate, it should perform well but we shall see!
The Pivot works well, the force you need to lower is noticeably reduced and the Vee-slots are better formed to reduce the swapping over the strands under high load which is the downfall of a lot of guide plates.
The Grip is sort-of good, the increased holding power is really noticeable at least at normal loads (I wasn´t able to put it under high loads today). The two halves are held together by magnets to stop the increased power engaging under normal paying in and out but with any real force the halves seperate and the spring/retainer loop takes over. It´s big problem is that you can´t make a two-rope version as the pivot makes it too wide for any normal karabiner.

Also new was the Camp Matik (matix?) which is a Grigri/Eddy type thing. Somehow I just didn´t want one, it seemed heavy and crude somehow and had an anti-panic function which I don´t want. Be interesting to see if the claimed low impact force translates into it slips a lot!
The Edelrid Jul has turned into a single-rope MegaJul, the demo of it locking up hands-free was a notable failure.
The Trango Cinch is rumoured to be re-designed, not before time methinks.

Jim,

Thanks for the info. I look forward to any other specifics on longevity and failure issues you may come across.

Pertaining to the Grip, I was wondering about the pivot point and bearing. It appears to be internally sealed an not accessible. Would anyone know if this is the case? Just wondering on protection of moving surfaces in relation to dirt/grit/whatnot. Could this device be rendered inoperable or inconsistent in operation?

Interesting device to be sure, for I would like to get my hands on one to test out. I have a few questions and would like to satisfy them with my own hands-on application.

Keep us updated on the new a cool guys. Thanks!

for larger pic go here

mountainproject.com/images/…

;)

Matik would be interesting if it proves to be a) as reliable as a Grigri (ie more than the Smart etc) and b) actually has lower impact forces. Can you disengage the cam easily on belay to feed rope fast like with a Grigri?

How do you lower or rappel with the Grip once the rope is weighted? Do you have to pinch the sides together in your palm? No guide mode either. Meh. Cool for single pitch I guess.

I'll stick with a Grigri for now.

Jim Titt wrote: The Edelrid Jul has turned into a single-rope MegaJul, the demo of it locking up hands-free was a notable failure.

Any of video of this? This news is surprising to me. I have been using the MegaJul for months without a bit of slippage even. Then again I've been using a 10.5 rope. Do you know what size rope the demo used?

Looks like when you brake hard the grip 'splits' in two and both bottom corners clamp against the Biner. It has magnets in it, maybe that holds the top part together when it's not arresting a fall. The pivot device looks like a safer way of lowering, requiring less force to overcome the lock off device so the initial release won't be so fast and dramatic.

I'm interested in both for sure.

What is the deal with the 'catch' (?) in the picture? the one with the handle?

JD Borgeson wrote:What is the deal with the 'catch' (?) in the picture? the one with the handle?

That´s what was the Buddy but with a lowering handle, it´s an industrial fall arrest product.

Antonio Caligiuri wrote: Any of video of this? This news is surprising to me. I have been using the MegaJul for months without a bit of slippage even. Then again I've been using a 10.5 rope. Do you know what size rope the demo used?

You mean you don´t hold the brake rope when you´re belaying?

Jim Titt wrote: You mean you don´t hold the brake rope when you´re belaying?

Can't speak for him, but with my Smart I like to leave an inch or two of slack on the brake strand and watch how it catches falls. Does it suck up the slack and then lock? Does it lock on its own, leaving the brake strand to my hand loose?

BigFeet wrote:Pertaining to the Grip, I was wondering about the pivot point and bearing. It appears to be internally sealed an not accessible. Would anyone know if this is the case? Just wondering on protection of moving surfaces in relation to dirt/grit/whatnot. Could this device be rendered inoperable or inconsistent in operation?

I doubt there are any bearings in there; it's most likely just an oversized metal-on-metal pin/rivet/whatever you want to call it. I don't think it would be any more susceptible to failure than the pivot points on any other belay device.

Jim Titt wrote: You mean you don´t hold the brake rope when you´re belaying?

No, never. We usually just tie it to a tree with an old piece of webbing. Of course I hold the brake end, but it always catches without much "braking" on my part. And it holds without slippage if I'm not holding tightly. That's why I was curious to see some footage of the tests/demos.