Large group climbing at Jurassic Park (Lily Lake) June 11

Sorry for the short notice.

I will have a group of 16 new climbers (divided in 3 small groups) up at Jurassic Park (Lily Lake) tomorrow (Tues, June 11). We'll be on the easier (5.6 and 5.7) routes in the upper section (Strategery, Your Possible Pasts, Top Rope Wall Crack) and also Coloradoddity.

I'll also have another group (not so large) up there on Tues June 25th, but I'll try to repost that closer to the date. I know of another group that will be there on that same day as well.

Again, sorry for the short notice, I meant to post this a few days ago.

Did it cost extra to set up that huge tyrolean between the formations?

It looked more like twenty people. Wow.

All good points Eli.

Also - doesnt abusing an area like this also piss off land managers and the FS?

And looks poorly on the climbing community? I hate it when people fuck it up for the rest of us...

I'm just wondering what the point of the original post is; there's something I don't like about the tone. To discourage us from climbing here on those days? I've never had a problem with other groups. If I wanted to lead one of the climbs you mentioned, other groups have always interrupted their toproping to let me lead through, and I presume your new climbers are being oriented to this simple crag etiquette as well. Or are you just warning us to expect a crowd? And will this crowd be there from sunup to sundown?

richardd wrote:I'm just wondering what the point of the original post is; there's something I don't like about the tone. To discourage us from climbing here on those days? I've never had a problem with other groups. If I wanted to lead one of the climbs you mentioned, other groups have always interrupted their toproping to let me lead through, and I presume your new climbers are being oriented to this simple crag etiquette as well. Or are you just warning us to expect a crowd? And will this crowd be there from sunup to sundown?

Seems to just be a basic PSA which I appreciate considering the few times I've gotten completly shut down due to the BC school of top rope gangbanging. Myself I wish I would have known that the ice crag would be strewn with TR's and 30 kids before I made the drive.

richardd wrote:I'm just wondering what the point of the original post is; there's something I don't like about the tone. To discourage us from climbing here on those days? I've never had a problem with other groups. If I wanted to lead one of the climbs you mentioned, other groups have always interrupted their toproping to let me lead through, and I presume your new climbers are being oriented to this simple crag etiquette as well. Or are you just warning us to expect a crowd? And will this crowd be there from sunup to sundown?

What if the expectant, excited crowd shows up ... and another crowd is already on the route!

Thanks Eli, we are a non-profit and our campers are not paying for the guiding... our guides are all volunteer (including myself). I have spoken directly with the NFS, described the size of our groups and how we would be using the space. They explicitly told me that our use was acceptable and that we did not need a permit. We've done this for the last 5 years (one or two days each summer... mid-week, always Tuesday).

> I'm just wondering what the point of the original post is; there's
> something I don't like about the tone.

I am dismayed that you didn't like the tone of my posting, Richard. I wasn't trying to tell anyone to stay away. As Scott McMahon noted, I was simply letting the local climbing community know as a courtesy. Many other groups also use this space for hosting groups and never post such a notice. Maybe I should have said, "we PLAN/HOPE to be on the easier routes..." instead of "we WILL be...".

One of the things we go over with our campers is that this is a shared space and we have to be respectful of other people there. I and all of the folks I have guiding with me are local, long term climbers. So we want to be on good terms with everyone.

Last year someone else posted such a notice on MP about a group they were planning to take to JP, and a couple of people said something like, "Thanks... wish more people would do that." I try to remember to do that also.

> Did it cost extra to set up that huge tyrolean between the
> formations?

We were not the group of ~8 guides on the Tyrolean. That was the folks from Kent Mountain Adventure Center out of Estes Park... they installed those bolts (and many others at JP). They were up there on Tues practicing their use of the Tyrolean and doing some other anchor/bolt maintenance. I've spoken with Harry Kent directly also and we are on good terms with them. We use their same bolts for setting up a rappel.

> What if the expectant, excited crowd shows up ... and another crowd
> is already on the route!

As with any other public climbing location it's first come first served. We have been there at the same time as other groups (and individuals) and we just work together to share the space and be respectful of other users. We usually occupy ~3 routes at one time. And if we've got an anchor set up that we are not using then we are happy for someone else to climb on our rope... or pull our rope and use our anchor. In fact, just yesterday someone wanted to climb Strategery and we pulled our rope and suggested that they use our anchor.

> Also - doesnt abusing an area like this also piss off land managers > and the FS?

I certainly hope we weren't abusing the area. I always approach any other group who is guiding there to make sure we are sharing the space respectfully. And of course, we try to leave the area cleaner than we found it.