Rope Anchor (video demonstration)

Robert Cort wrote:Hmm, no issues with what you wound up for the autoblock setup, but for what you've shown for the redirect and belay off of the harness, I see an issue (someone correct me if I've missed something). The issue is that whenever you re-direct off the anchor, you put double the load of the fall on the anchor. In this case, you've isolated one of your anchor points, so only two of the three points will experience double the force of the followers fall. Yeah, not likely to be a problem for the follower on top-rope. But...

If one of your anchor pieces can't withstand 2x a TR fall...

Overall, I like your method for using the rope. My only complaint is that it isn't easy to adjust the distance between yourself and the master point. For this reason I like to tie my master point coming off a couple of the pieces, and attach myself to it using a clove to a biner. Then it's really easy to adjust without removing anything.

This is a great thread, thanks. A couple of follow-on questions for all of the posters on this thread:

- what if you're climbing with double ropes? Do you clove the first strand to the 1st piece, and then the 2nd strand to the 2nd and 3rd pieces, with the masterpoint knot in between the 2nd and 3rd pieces? Or some variation?

- Also, an ignorant question: why is the masterpoint tied from a bight off the belayer's strand, and not using the loops between the pieces on the anchor? (Jason's method shows a biner cloved to a loop between 2nd and 3rd pieces, then a figure 8 on a bight as the masterpoint tied to the strand coming off his harness).

Thanks,
John

Jason Kim wrote: Why would it be more difficult to escape the belay with this set up?

Because you and the rope are part of the anchor system. Minimizing the amount of rope used, and contact you have helps alleviate escape issues. It's all a moot point if you don't know what to do after you've escaped or don't have enough line to rap to the 2nd or set up a haul so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Puzman wrote:This is a great thread, thanks. A couple of follow-on questions for all of the posters on this thread: - what if you're climbing with double ropes? Do you clove the first strand to the 1st piece, and then the 2nd strand to the 2nd and 3rd pieces, with the masterpoint knot in between the 2nd and 3rd pieces? Or some variation? - Also, an ignorant question: why is the masterpoint tied from a bight off the belayer's strand, and not using the loops between the pieces on the anchor? (Jason's method shows a biner cloved to a loop between 2nd and 3rd pieces, then a figure 8 on a bight as the masterpoint tied to the strand coming off his harness). Thanks, John

I always climb on a single, so can't offer any help with the first question.

I'm not sure I understand your second question, but using cloves at the master point allows you to adjust the lengths of the individual strands however needed. Switching those to fig-8's on bights would eliminate that important benefit and doesn't really offer any advantage, IMO.

Greg G wrote: Because you and the rope are part of the anchor system. Minimizing the amount of rope used, and contact you have helps alleviate escape issues. It's all a moot point if you don't know what to do after you've escaped or don't have enough line to rap to the 2nd or set up a haul so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

The belayer is tied into the end of the rope, but he is not part of the anchor system. In my example above, the belayer is no more part of the anchor system than he would be using a typical cordelette anchor. Unless you're suggesting that untying from the end of the rope is a tricky or time-consuming procedure.

Escaping the belay isn't any more difficult. I suppose it's possible to invent scenarios where this anchor would be less convenient than a cordelette, but can you describe any real-world situations where this anchor would make self-rescue slower or more difficult?

Jason- thanks! Just saw this video. Useful

Jason Kim wrote: The belayer is tied into the end of the rope, but he is not part of the anchor system. In my example above, the belayer is no more part of the anchor system than he would be using a typical cordelette anchor. Unless you're suggesting that untying from the end of the rope is a tricky or time-consuming procedure. Escaping the belay isn't any more difficult. I suppose it's possible to invent scenarios where this anchor would be less convenient than a cordelette, but can you describe any real-world situations where this anchor would make self-rescue slower or more difficult?

Jason,

I like your video and like you I often use my rope to construct anchors (using your system and other methods as well).

To answer your question (re: self rescue slower or more difficult), it is conceivable that some self rescue scenarios would require you to build a new anchor set-up using slings/cordalette under your rope anchor so that you could transfer the load onto the new anchor setup freeing up the rope so that you could do, for instance, a counter balance rappel to your injured second and continue down to the ground or next rap station. I'm sure there are other rescue scenario that might require one to "free up the rope."

How often would this scenario (or similar ones) present itself? Very infrequently I'm sure.

In a worst case scenario if one is wholly dependent on the rope for the anchor (i.e. no slings/cordalette available) one could always cut the climbing rope leaving the cut portion as the anchor and use the remaining rope to rappel.

Like you, I am not suggesting that one should always use the rope (or never use a cordalette), one should have many skills/tricks and use the most appropriate one when available (and of course know how to get out of any situation that that decision might put you in).

Climb safe (and keep posting any new videos). Thanks.
Marty

Jason Kim wrote: I'm not sure I understand your second question, but using cloves at the master point allows you to adjust the lengths of the individual strands however needed. Switching those to fig-8's on bights would eliminate that important benefit and doesn't really offer any advantage, IMO.

I think a picture here is worth a thousand words...

What I'm asking is: you are using B as a masterpoint. Why not gather together A and C and tie an overhand or figure 8 on a bight, and then clip into that from your harness? In the link to the other video earlier in this thread, the guide ties the third piece off to his harness with a clove, then gathers together A and C to create a masterpoint.

Ah yes, the picture does help. That would also work, though it might eat up a bit more rope. The only drawback I see is that you wouldn't be able to easily adjust for a change in direction of pull, but that is a very minor thing. It would save a carabiner, which is nice.