In NYC - where should I go?

rgold wrote: Hmm. I've always thought that "bolts=sport," "gear=trad" misunderstands both genres. Those older routes fit my definition of trad climbs, because although bolt-protected, the location of the protection was dictated by nature (the location of stances from which drilling is possible) on a ground-up ascent. I think that nowadays, when people speak of sport climbing, they mean rap-bolted and cleaned routes with safe falls from closely-spaced bolts and, in the case of bigger spacing, very clean overhanging falls. If this is your understanding of sport climbing, then better read the descriptions in Adirondack Rock very carefully before launching up a route that might be, in my lexicon, bolted trad. If you do go, don't forget your clip stick. At least at Poko, some of those first clips are high enough to scare my ancient bones and ligaments.

The region has a reputation for bolt-protected routes that have a more "trad-like" feel (e.g., Bill Route @ Rogers Rock, Ukiah @ Poke-O, Space Walk @ Poke-O Slab). There are also a good number of routes that qualify as "sport" routes -- generously bolted, clean routes with safe falls. It's good advice to check the guidebook descriptions. Pay special attention to gear suggestions, protection rating, and the FA date. Anything listed on the newroutes page is, of course, new. Even better: know your limits and back off if you don't like it; you can always toprope. And know this -- no matter how well a route is protected, a fall at the wrong moment can be dangerous (like when you're making that second clip, or above a ledge).

Where to start for super safe, bolt-protected routes? How about Snowy, Otter Lake, Ark Wall, Beaver Brook, Lost Hunter's, Potash, Shanty, Shelving Rock, Silver Lake or Spanky's.

When you go to these areas, you'll wish you had a rack to explore the neighboring routes which require gear :-)

Jon Frisby wrote: One concern I have is that no one I know knows trad, and I'm a bit sketched out trying to teach myself how to place gear via Youtube (not to mention the abject stupidity in that idea. Any recommendations on that front?

Save up some money and hire a guide for a few days.

Or alternatively, if you have a car, drive me to the gunks and we can climb. Most city climbers feel stranded because of no car and many will trade a kidney for gunks trips (looks at the ground with a sense of shame for no longer having a car and constantly begging for rides).

The good part about being part of a group of folks learning trad is that you don't each have to buy all of the gear, which greatly reduces the cost per person.

or like others have said, just drive to rumney/the new every weekend.

Rob Davis wrote: Save up some money and hire a guide for a few days. Or alternatively, if you have a car, drive me to the gunks and we can climb. Most city climbers feel stranded because of no car and many will trade a kidney for gunks trips (looks at the ground with a sense of shame for no longer having a car and constantly begging for rides). The good part about being part of a group of folks learning trad is that you don't each have to buy all of the gear, which greatly reduces the cost per person. or like others have said, just drive to rumney/the new every weekend.

A few of us (NYU students) are thinking of renting a car and going up in the spring or so. You want me to keep you posted?

Rumney is the closest decent sport climbing from NY. West Point is OK but make sure your belayer is on their A-game bc there are tons of ledges and is pretty slabby, Rumney is worth the drive if you make it a long weekend...leave Friday and return ate sunday after climbing most of the day.

rogerbenton wrote:jon- on that front, post up in the partner finder and be honest about where you're at and where you want to go with your climbing. you could meet many gunks trad climbers here (hint- the guys who just told you to "get a rack"). if you are climbing 5.10 you are going to love the gunks. for me, some of the stuff rgold spoke about concerning the "unknown" qualities of what lay ahead on a new trad climb is more than half of the fun.

And I'll add - don't climb at your limits when learning. Follow on some routes and pay close attention to how the gear is placed, where, etc. Ask questions. Get Freedom of the Hills (climber's bible). Then when you feel ready enough, do some EASY routes to practice pro placement. Don't lead at your limit until you have experience placing gear at poor and/or pumpy stances. I learned from a school of thought that you sport and gym climb to get better, and trad climb for fun. [so pushing grades on the sharp end is adding a lot of risk to an already risky proposition]

Jon Frisby wrote: One concern I have is that no one I know knows trad, and I'm a bit sketched out trying to teach myself how to place gear via Youtube (not to mention the abject stupidity in that idea. Any recommendations on that front?

As long as your willing to start at the bottom and work your way up so to speak. Starting off buy enough gear to set up top ropes, a set of nuts and hexes, not even a full set just some medium to large stoppers and hexes, and a bunch of webbing.

Get some more gear and start placing gear while top roping, also practice placements on the ground. That's what a guide will have you do.

At some point its good to have an experienced climber, guide or guy you give a lift to, critique your placements. Learn to judge rock quality and really test the placements. You'll also get a lot of practice cleaning hard set placements.

You and your buddies should be able to teach yourselves how to trad climb, with a little help from books and the web. Maybe one of you pays for a lead lesson, or just keep giving that guy a lift.

Then start off well below your limit and climb safe as you work your way up the grades. Lead easier climbs that give access to top roping harder climbs.

Give yourself a couple of seasons and you might just be leading trad at the same grade you now lead sport.

I'd not recommend driving all the way from NYC to climb at Birdsboro or Safe Harbor. I'm not that far from Birdsboro and opt to drive to the Gunks much more regularly. If you get some basic anchoring skills you can have a blast at Peterskill and parts of the Trapps on topropes.

Jon Frisby wrote: A few of us (NYU students) are thinking of renting a car and going up in the spring or so. You want me to keep you posted?

Yes. I can show you around Peterskill and set up toprope/bouldering.

Rumney, IMO, is a perfectly reasonable weekend destination. The New is pushing it, though I've done it. A 3 day weekend would be more reasonable for the New.

The longer I climb (and I'm still a novice, to be sure), the less time I want to spend dicking around at mediocre to crappy "locals' crags." On that note, I would suggest you avoid the poison ivy wall at west point, the transit cliffs and powerlines areas, harriman, anything in NJ...they aren't worth the gas money alone, much less the opportunity cost of a day in one of the greatest cities in the world. Access is sketchy at some of these areas anyway.

I'll echo the sentiment that you should learn how to trad climb if you want to take advantage of the best climbing in NY. You can certainly teach yourself how to trad climb, and countless climbers have. You've just got to do your homework and take it step by step. No one wants to recommend that, though, in case you fuck up and kill yourself.