Petzl Microtraxion for top rope soloing

Sirius wrote:The system on display in the video that Doze posts is, imho, not up to stuff. Redundancy shouldn't be considered optional. Also, look at the image at 1:10 in Doze's video and you'll see two long tails dangling from the knot in his cordalette. That's awful. Sources of info like that aren't doing anybody any favors.

Where is this Doze video? I'm not finding it.
????

I NEVER rely on just 1 device for soloing. Should that 1 device fail for any reason - the results could be deadly. Any piece of equipment can fail - even the best climbing gear!

Sirius wrote: Also, look at the image at 1:10 in Doze's video and you'll see two long tails dangling from the knot in his cordalette. That's awful. Sources of info like that aren't doing anybody any favors.

That's pretty much how I've tied on my Gibbs Ascender for the last 30 years when TR soloing. What he shows is nothing more than a flat overhand knot (EDK). Do you think that long tails are bad in this application but good when tying two ropes together for rappelling?

The cord passes through the ascender and harness at least 3 times. Each strand can only see 1/3 of the load. I use 7mm cord and the tails are usually about 6" long. I just tuck the tails under my harness.

I like this method better because no carabiner and no crossloading.

mike its not that complicated it just takes alittle foresight, The sling allows some room inbetween you and the micro trax which allows you to put on a belay device right below the trax. Before you clip the repel device to you, you stand up on a foot prussik which locks the repel device so that when you clip into it you can take off the micro trax hands free. Then when you are finally ready to rap down you can just clip the prussik to your belay loop as a back up to your rapel. It kinda allows for you to have reduncy at all times with minimal equipment. Ill see if I can get a picture togather. THe debate about exactly how to use the device i feel is the wrong conversation to have. THere are bigger things to worry about. If there is a route with a roof your weighted strand could sit on the lip and cause rope damage. If the rout wanders alot it could cause problems, i feel like a supplement thread should talk about which routes would be acceptable to climb on a top rope solo set up. Or i could be talking just to hear the sound of my keyboard clicking away

Michael Urban wrote: Sounds complicated Brasky! Maybe it's just ME! Most times I need to SEE things rigged to 'get it!' LOL.

yeah I think pics would be a great help!

I saw a video of a climber using the Mini-Traxion tied with power cord thru his belay loop/harness versus a locking carabiner. States that it would be less subject to 'torquing' and twisting in a fall - hence less chance of the Traxion's side plates popping apart, bending, etc.

What does everyone think of this? Necessary or not? I'm not sure I like the idea of power cord versus a strong locking 'biner - tho I know power cord CAN be really strong, but knotted - not rated what a 'biner is per se - even tho a 'biner can fail as well.

Thoughts?

my only concern would be slack in the cord your using to attach to your harbess 6 inches between you and the device could mean a 6inch fall that might chew up the rope.

Brasky wrote:my only concern would be slack in the cord your using to attach to your harbess 6 inches between you and the device could mean a 6inch fall that might chew up the rope.

Why would it be even 6" of slack? You would tie it so that it's close to your harness - less than the length of a carabiner. That's what I do.

How about the new mechanized prusik? the Petzl Zigzag.

Most prusiks in treework are not meant to be used on a single line and are not rated for that. They are meant to be used on a double rope system where they are only experiencing half the load (body weight). I've looked at this device at trade shows and I assume that is also how it is intended and tested to be used.

Stewart
ISA Certified Arborist

Good point. Looks like the tech specs say it also has a working load of 140kg. I just found it intriguing from a gadget geek standpoint.

Im just trying to think of ways things could go wrong i actually like the idea of using the cord instead of a biner. 1 other thing i thought of though is it could get caught up in the cam a tail of the knot or somthin might get sucked up inot the device then you have to do a load tranfserto get unstuck. might be somthing worth thinking about

Those zig-zags are incredibly smooth though. But definitely would not be good for even the slightest bit of dynamic loading.

Brasky wrote:Im just trying to think of ways things could go wrong i actually like the idea of using the cord instead of a biner. 1 other thing i thought of though is it could get caught up in the cam a tail of the knot or somthin might get sucked up inot the device then you have to do a load tranfserto get unstuck. might be somthing worth thinking about

Maybe. Hasn't happened to me yet in over 30 years and hundreds of falls. But, I use an old Gibbs Ascender (similar to a Shunt) and it may not be so prone to getting anything caught in the cam. If it did happen I think I could just stand in a loop of the rope and unweight the ascender. I sometimes do that to get back up to an overhang.

One thing you might think about is how difficult it would be to disconnect if you need to. Say, to make a transition to rappelling. For me, I leave the cam tied to my harness and just have to pull the quick disconnect pin on the Gibbs to release if off the rope.

if youre worried just used one of those DMM belay massters for your attachment

Can anyone point me to the thread on here that I saw ocne of modifying the GriGri by drilling a small hole in the housing for a small power cord to be used as a 'keeper cord?' I know I posted ;ics of this long agao too (Summer 2012) but can't find it now for the life of me! ??

I have deep concerns about the Mini-Traxion ruining my ropes and as-such am going to sell my brand new Traxion on here and just use my GriGri2. While it might be more of a PITA to have to keep pulling the rope thru it every so-many feet I'd much rather do that that F**k up my expensive ropes!

Here´s a better way to drill it. Use an 1/8" drill and drill from both sides until the holes join up. You are aiming for the outer side of the pivot pin which is about 6mm in diameter. If you use a keyring it can´t get anywhere in the mechanism to jam something up but will rip open if its overloaded.

Use a rubber band/draw retainer (mine is a Petzl String I think) or whatever to keep the Grigri from moving and cross-loading the karabiner. File a groove in the rear flap to allow the rope to feed better, smooth please!

Why does Petzl reccomend extending the secondary belay acsender on the 17cm sling?

doze wrote:Locking mechanism on microtrax makes me uncomfortable. It looks like it may be easy to dis-engage by accident while being pressed against your body. Maybe just paranoia, but I would keep an eye on it. Also a number of very experienced people have forgotten to engage the device before starting to climb. You could mod minitrax by cutting off the lock with a jigsaw. Doesn't look like you can do it with microtrax.

FWIW, the Micro Traxion locks open via a little tang on the toothed arm. So you depress the button and push the toothed arm up, and the tang locks into a slot up there. If you wanted to disable simple pulley mode, you might be able to carefully file off that tang. Then it could not be locked open.

I spent yesterday using my two Micro Traxions for the first time as TR solo tools. They are easier than I would like to lock open (but still require two fingers: you must cam the armature out, AND depress the lock button), but they also look and feel really different when locked open (the teeth are sticking out and they are super smooth on the rope in both directions). I think it's only a real problem at the beginning of the climb, and then you just have to make it a part of your safety checklist.

I had two of them, each on a separate line, one rigged to a chest harness. They were REALLY smooth sliding up the rope, and quick to lock. Nice.

I think there is a safety factor of the Micro Traxions that it is easy to overlook: they slide up the rope SO nicely, that they are nice and tight on the lines with little climber thought. That rocks and makes them safer than some other choices, perhaps (but I am worried about how they will treat my rope if I use them all the time).

That's why i am selling MY brand new Traxion perhaps to someone who wants one for hauling.

I don't wanna drop tons of money on my ropes (2) and risk ruining them while roped soloing using it. Might never happens but I'm not will to take that chance! I'll stick with my GriGri 2 and a knotted back up system instead tho much slower and less efficient than 'free running' devices on the rope instead.