Rock climbing ethics from an origional Stone Master-Martin Veillon

i used to love my neighbor all the time, 2-3 times a week. Now, i can't stand her.

"I agree with every thing Martin said as well as Crump, and I don't really care that Martin doesn't use paragraphs, it's the title of the OP that interests me most for some reason." Hank Caylor

To Martin Veillon:

I don't care who you are. I think you are right. You must realize that the title of your post was a bit provacative, and certain to drag out the shit munchers.

To everyone else:

Why don't you go on a fucking climb, or put up a first ascent if your so bad.

Cheers!

Many of the original Stonemasters post regularly on Supertopo. Maybe you should post there, too.

Andy Kowles wrote: This whole thread nicely illustrates just how shitty this particular internet forum has become, just how shitty the ethics of climbing have become, and just how necessary the bans on fixed protection outside of Boulder are!

Nice!

So please enlighten me on how talking about how doing one finger pullups has anything to do with ethics?

He could talk ethics without this.

Josh Kornish wrote:So please enlighten me on how talking about how doing one finger pullups has anything to do with ethics? He could talk ethics without this.

If you want people to post appropriate material, why not do it yourself? I don't think calling anything "sucking a mummy dick" helps out in your position...

It's not a common phrase and you may have taken it wrong. Meaning basically looking back on your old days and how great you were. (nostalgia)

I stand by my original statement.

I hope someday I'll be a 'legend in my own mind'

As for your ethics I am again 100% in agreement.

One thing is certain. The Descanso Crag, a fine back road cliff in San Diego county, does not deserve to suffer from Bad Bolt Behavior by anyone.

One thing is certain. The Descanso Crag, a fine back road cliff in San Diego county, does not deserve to suffer from Bad Bolt Behavior by anyone. </quote

Would you really expect more from the religious reich (err, right) running things there? They could give two farts about the respecting the environment. Manifest destiny and lifted trucks are the core values of these hateful specimens.

Willie Wilson wrote:I doen't matter what "reasonable people" think about the safety of a route. Adding bolts to an established climb without the approval of the first ascent party is unacceptable.

Thank you Willie Wilson. Always consult with the FAs. It's axiomatic that subjective risk is the life blood of this sport. To reduce existing bold lines to gym routes is an affront to the efforts of skilled first ascentionists - to those with the proficiency to repeat, and displays a profound ignorance of what climbing is, and what it isn't. The act of placing bolts on a protect-able crack speaks for itself. I think "reasonable people" would agree.

"I never thought of the Stonemasters as some select group of elite folk, rather it was a kind of adventure based on the ground-up, on-sight values established by those who came before us - the actual pioneers." John Long

Olaf Mitchell wrote:"I never thought of the Stonemasters as some select group of elite folk, rather it was a kind of adventure based on the ground-up, on-sight values established by those who came before us - the actual pioneers." John Long

In my mind it was in fact a select group that represented a snapshot of an era, just like there were other sub-groups and other gatherings of miscreants around the world like the Vulgarians.

I just read an e-mail advertisment about 5-10-2012 in Costa Mesa, Ca. at 5pm I belive that John Long, Mike Graham, and John Fidelman-sorry I may not have spelled this correctly.

Anyway, they will be doing a movie presentation, book signing, meet and greet deal and I wish I could attend but that's Thurs. and one of my grandsons baseball game.

I wasn't there last week and he finally hit his 1st home run and I promised him I wouldn't miss this game.

But I would like to offer all 3 of the Stone Masters that if they are still in the San Diego area on this Fri., Sat. and Sun. that I would love to have them over and perhaps do some climbing or whatever else they want to do-say Descanso.

We live in East County and are 25 miles from the beach and 15 miles from Descanso.

My wife is leaveing Fri. morning to fly up to Sonoma to watch one of our nieces graduated college so if they wanted they can crash at our house.

We're in the process of selling our house and have moved much of our things to our other "retirement next year" house and have only one bed here.

But they can use the one bed we have here and the sofa accomodates 2 and I can sleep on an air mattress.

I would also love for them to come over as they could sign my Stone Masters book and the books I have by John Long here currently.

My favorite "Gorrila Monsoon" is out on loan to a neighbor at our other house but I've got a couple of others here.

Please pass this along to them should they be interested in staying Friday and/or Sat. night thru Sunday.

I have to pick up my wife at the airport Sun. afternoon and I'll be home from work around 3-3:30pm on Friday.
619-318-9462

CJC wrote:sad this place is just another internet cesspool now...attacking the man instead of discussing the issues. I'm with you Martin good luck and thanks for holding the line. knew the sport would explode in popularity but never would have expected the lazy self-centered arrogance that this new generation of climbers would bring. bolting cracks and/or eliminating runouts on established climbs? or defending such? cowards.

I agree.

I took Martin's comments about his own ability as an effort to introduce himself/establish credibility, since, obviously, few here know who he is. It wasn't any of that that mattered though (or his ability to create paragraphs). Take a minute to try to tease out his message - it's a good one.

Good words Tim!

6 bolts added to this? And it takes gear? Legit gear? And this was 20 years after the FA??
LAME isn't even the proper word.

Despite the hubris and righteous indignation of the OP, there are two sides to the issue. Until the other side speaks up, Mr Veillion will be vindicated. It could be that new climbers " discovered " Descanso Crag and thought it was an old, crusty, abandoned trad crag. Or is retrobloting rampant in SD county?

Adding bolts without consent = poor style.

What say you San Diego climbers? Whats up?

Full disclosure. Lets have it.

For my latest and possibly last long winded comment until my upcoming book comes out-with editing for correct paragraph formatting and spelling-go to the supertopo website to view if you're curious.

Peace and Love,
always,
Martin Veillon-"The Mountain That Walks"

ps, you can shut the front door on your way out!

Mr. Stonemaster I salute you! This was almost a brilliant piece of self-promotion. What it lacked in faux humility it certainly made up for with blunt volume. I myself followed along riding the waves of disbelief and indignation upset with this "younger generation" and how we've lost the meaning of what climbing is all about. "Respecting the stone" right?!

That was your message right?!

Or should we expect the upcoming dates of your book tour to be posted here and on Supertaco in the upcoming days and weeks? I'll be watching Twitter for your tweets hashtagged with #stonemasterGod or #stoneMasterMessiah to show up if they haven't already.

Is respecting the FA about the route or is it about the FAer's ego? You've certainly got me thinking sir. Thank you.