graffiti at base of Johnny Vegas

I don't know how the plaques at IC came into this, but it's not the same thing. If you don't know why, have never been to either area, and feel strongly about this, please keep it to yourself. At the Red there are sometimes plaques attached to the base of routes, they're not the same as graffiti. They don't deface anything at all, neither do the IC plaques. It's a douche with a sharpie vs. an accepted local tradition of labeling routes in order to let other climbers know what has been done. No comparison.

Mark, John, kbobby are all right about the plaques at The Creek. They are part of the place and they add to it. Example; the Luxury Liner plaque is both art and history. Saying you don't care about The Creek is like saying you don't care about Yosemite. Whether you climb there a bunch, or ever, is beside the point. Have some soul. Grafitti at Red Rocks is a crime. Not figuratively.

JMo, and so many others, it's Red Rock, not Red Rocks. ; )

No, it is not Red Rock either.

Its Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area. If you are going to correct people for adding an S( like every other vegas local, yawn) you should probably get the name right yourself....

Since you mentioned Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area, we have a trail clean up day coming up in April. Visiting Red Rock climbers are encouraged to attend,
: ) but will not be forced at gunpoint, or anything like that.

Oh, and welcome to Mountain Project, and thank you for your first post. This is an awesome site!

JMo wrote: Saying you don't care about The Creek is like saying you don't care about Yosemite. Have some soul. Grafitti at Red Rocks is a crime. Not figuratively.

I don't have soul because I don't care about the Creek? Huh. Good to know. This is a god damn retarded conversation, and there have been exactly zero compelling arguments for why plaques are a good idea. But I'll tell you what, since as I have stated, I don't have any feeling one way or the other for what goes on at the Creek, I will just STFU already and quit bitching about your sacred plaques. Just don't let your plaque affair to spread to any other area....any of those plaques start showing up in the Sierra and we can get rid of them by breaking them over the heads of whoever made them. Sheesh.

Climbers bitching about visual impacts from other users. Talk about the height, pun intended, of hypocrisy.

Any visual impact left behind by climbers is always justifiable by the climbers who left it behind. Anything left by non climbers is always a threat to access. Yeah right.

Everything is a threat to access. Chalk stains, perma draws, climber trails. If land managers were going to shut down an area every time some d-bags do something stupid everyplace would long ago have been shut down to all users.

The argument that only climbers use an area is a lame one at best. The base of any route is fair game to bushwackers out scrambling around.

Not saying I support d-bags with sharpies just pointing out the whole pot kettle thing.

Well played Gigi!

Sorry I didn't get to chat with you and John at beer night but got some crappy news and had to make a quick exit.

Thanks, Doug! I was still hungover yesterday. ; /

PS-I was wondering where you went! I looked for you after escaping to the ladies room, and saw that you had left. You know how to get a hold of us. We should all get out sometime if our schedules allow, if not for climbing then "other" desert stuff. Maybe even head over to the Pioneer Saloon in Goodsprings afterwards for beer, pool, and BBQ (they have a grill now!) .

johnL wrote:So an extremely area centric practice that is BOTH historical and falling out of favour is the same as writing on rocks with sharpies and paint? Choose your soapbox I guess.

+1

Big thanks to Lace (for posting the pic) and Massey (for being willing to do something about it).

Thanks for pointing it out. Don't have time to do anything until next week, but if anyone local is reading this and wants to help, lemme know.

I am not saying one thing is right or wrong but there are some distinct differences in some of what is being discussed here.

Indian Creek plaques are the names of the routes (not "I wuz here" comments) and are just on a rock that could be (and was) removed or smashed. One of the tags at Johnny Vegas looks like it is not a "placename" and is not easily removable by simply picking up a rock.

Also, if your calling out graffitists - here's some more and we know who did this.

Markrineer,
Well said.

Well done, Killis! I was going to offer beer, but not being local, it seemed unlikely he'd be able to take me up in it. Scott (or whoever actually does the job): if you find yourself in SF and we run in to one another the beer is on me!

Smassey deserves a damn keg, or twos worth, with all the selfless volunteer work he does for the climbing community! He also helps to keep the peace between land managers, and the climbing community while many of us, myself included, don't put in our fair share of good deeds, and just take the free ride. Groups like Smasseys shouldn't be a minority, as things can get real ugly for us climbers, real soon with impact, and access issues. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure we've all heard this before but with the growing popularity of our favorite sport, and the number of climbers rapidly increasing (millions climb now, right? It's like we're breeding like flies...), and all the egos, narcissistic personalities, rebels, and entitled folks mixed in we have a complicated mess, and we most likely will cause more long term damage/destruction to the outdoors, and to the future of our climbing communities/areas than your average city graffiti artists just passing through places like Red Rock could ever cause.

Just my pre-caffeinated 2 cents.

PS- I just want to say thank you to all of those who put in selfless volunteer work in Red Rock; Greg Barnes, Smassey, and his crew, Killis, Travis, and his crew at Desert Rock Sports, the LVCLC, and any other good folks whom I failed to mention, you know who you are!!

Sorry dirty gri gi whatever, have you corrected Joann uriosite too for misnaming her original guide to red rocks????

JMo wrote:Sorry dirty gri gi whatever, have you corrected Joann uriosite too for misnaming her original guide to red rocks????

I've heard the history on that. Thanks for pointing that out! It's pretty interesting how it spread like wildfire after that. I guess it's just a silly pet peeve of mine, I was a Red Rock hiker for quite awhile before I started climbing so I never heard any other folks, other than out of town climbers I was meeting ,refer to Red Rock as Red Rocks. Then I heard it came about from one of the Red Rock pioneers guide book name. I guess I'm a hypocrite, because I call Eldorado Canyon "Eldo", Lumpy Ridge, "Lumpy" , Joshua Tree "J- Tree" and still don't know what to call Tahquitz Rock, maybe just Tahquitz. ; )

Have a good day, JMo, and all. : )

"Irony Buffet". Uh, cool... Thanks for the appreciation. Please don't start a thread or buy me a keg. I would cease to be productive in the case of the latter... I'd settle for folks donating to the waste bag project. Any beer fund thanks sent to Desert Rock Sports (8221 W. Charleston Blvd. #106. 89117) will be donated to the waste bag fund. We've put out over 300 bags, and have gotten $57 in donations. While we have some pending support from some larger sponsors, it'd be sweet if the users supported the project and kept it sustainable.

Re: graffiti. PM's received.

No beta on whom "PDG" from Sacramento might be?