No Parking From Dusk Til Dawn - Red Rock

It has been brought to my attention that folks are being ticketed for being parked in the exit lot of the Scenic Drive after dark. I will contact the BLM and see what is going on, but for the meantime if you're gonna be stashing cars there, put in for a late exit permit. Or park on the highway.

I have talked to the BLM Rec staff, and they are seeking clarification on this issue. It seems that All of the BLM Managed Parking (BVC, First Creek, Oak Creek, Exit Lot, Kraft) have signs stating No Parking Dusk to Dawn, and enforcement is occurring. I will double-check on the sign locations today. Therefore, do not plan on parking in those lots after dark until further notice. It does not appear that requesting a late exit permit will do any good, as those lots are not managed by the late exit system. I will post more as I learn more. For now, climb faster...

I agree Killis, this is a HUGE access issue that affects climbers only. Let's not get too riled until we find out the whole story and if it can get easily changed. It sounds like Scott(1/3 of the CLC) is doing the due diligence. I'm sure he will let us know if we need to start banging on the drums.

THANK YOU for steppin up for us. I'm from Flag so its going to cost me a hundie anyway to try to go and meet someone in the Nevada BLM office. OK I don't read signs, I'd pay 25-40 quietly for that mistake but I was honestly trying to respect the park: 125.00 (hey man, I've got a kid ya know!!) Thats pretty steep for pretty much being off the road.

Steve

just to clarify, are these parking lots outside of the loop. The small pull offs on the side of the highway. I was of the opinion that you werent supposed stay at BVC parking lot overnight anyways, but coming in early leaving late was SOP?

Exit of the loop road area. Big white lot just off the highway on the same side, bunch of cyclists parked there (just before dawn). It was clearly (I didn't notice though) marked but we were more concerned with loading gear and gettin walking so we would be back at a reasonable time. (planned return 5 pm, actual arrival after epic 8:30pm.. sundown 6pm)

Killis,

I am not a local but let me know if I can help. I visited RR about a half a dozen times last year, and I will be moving within a days drive soon enough and most likely visiting much more. I'll help with phone calls or emails if necessary. Thanks for stepping up!

So after driving Hwy 159 all the way to First Creek, the only signs stating that are at the Cowboy Trails lot, and the Exit Lot. I haven't been out to BVC in awhile, so if someone could look and post, that'd be great. That area has had No Camping signs for some time. So I would modify my warning to be no late parking in the Exit Lot (or Kraft, but that's been signed that way for almost a year). I will keep the post updated as I hear more.

In response to Killis's point, I am representing the LVCLC on this one. I am trying to get the full story before I suggest actions. The lead LEO was out of his office until yesterday, so hopefully some answers will be forthcoming.

I was instructed to write a letter to the court. I guess that is the next step for getting out of this ticket. The head ranger lady there was pretty adamant: "we just enforce the rules." I'm pretty sure one does not get out of paying a fine by writing a letter, but here goes!

Steve

Good work Killis and Scott. I heard from Nick yesterday also and he is looking into the issue. Sounds like BLM rangers and BLM Law Enforcement don't quite work hand in hand.

Scott - I was out in Black Velvet last tuesday and didn't notice any new signs.

Thanks Doug. Yeah, does appear to be sort of that failure to communicate thing. Steve, good luck.

Hi All,
As some of you know I'm trying to work with our Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) to get some answers for the public about this matter.

I did not hear back or see our LEOs today. Hopefully I hear something soon.

In the meantime I suggest climbers obey posted signs at the Scenic Loop Exit Lot.

I'll post here with any updates.

Thanks,
Nick Walendziak
Outdoor Recreation Planner
Climbing Lead
702-515-5358 Office

UPDATE:
My supervisor talked with the Lead LEO for Red Rock today. The LEOs temporarily agreed to allow late exit and overnight permits for the Exit Lot. Apparently, there have been issues with overnight camping and other criminal activity in that lot, prompting LEOs to post the signs. The BLM will discuss this issue internally in more depth soon. Again, I will post any updates.

Thanks,
Nick Walendziak
Outdoor Recreation Planner
Climbing Lead
702-515-5358 Office

Thanks Nick!

Good to hear, thank you!

Thanks a lot Nick and the redrockers. Can I include a snippit from this thread in my letter of appeal to the courts? I'll get on the case quicklike.
Steve

Thanks, Nick! Making late-exit permits available for that lot seems like a great idea. Hopefully they'll amend the recording on the permit line to include this lot on the list of parking areas which are eligible for the late-exit pass to give the request a little more legitimacy. (ie--if someone doesn't hear it mentioned on the recording, it's basically a "I saw it on the internet" defense if a ticket gets issued there.)

Nick-
Thanks for getting on it so quickly. We appreciate it.
cheers,
scott

Ditto that, Nick, thanks!

UpDate (so up yours!)

Hey all. I wrote the letter, called a bunch of numbers, KISSED it up. I got a reduced fine of 85 bucks. I'm going to pay it. Please keep up the good fight to keep our tax -paid land free. This is taxation with out representation with a safety twist (probably due to the big city near by). Thanks for the confidence 'fighting' this citation and let me know if I can do anymore for the cause...cause WE need the money.
Still planning a solstice visit for some desert action and a midweek beer if its going on in Vegas.

Steve