How hard do I aid?

To give you an idea of my ability: I struggle on hard 11s (can follow them without a problem).
My goal, to get on multi-pitch climbs with ratings like 5.9 A1 or 5.10 A2 (what does that even mean?).

How hard should I expect to aid right out of the gate? How does one prepare for their first aid climb (do I need to look for aiders or can I pull on gear and use slings for my feet)? Will I need to make stirrups for easy aiding? I've pulled on plenty of gear in my day, is that basically easy aid climbing?

You free climbing ability is less relevant than you trad placement and rope management abilities.

There is a saying that it is all A0 until the lead bashes start to pop. It's overly simplified, but its kind of true. If you can get a placement, you will get higher. With knowledge and proficiency of standard free climbing placements, you'll probably be able to climb C2 depending on the route. It will be a gear clusterF***, but you'll get better.

Evan

I guess it would also be important to note that I grew up (in a climbing sense) on the walls in Eldo where there's a definite art to gear placements and rope management.

C2 would be reasonable or a struggle for someone like me?

You're not going to find out on your computer--you're going to find out on the rock.

Is this a troll? You sound like a tourist on a bus in Yosemite.

Fat Dad wrote:Is this a troll? You sound like a tourist on a bus in Yosemite.

That's the definition of anyone who uses Mountainproject

Jeffeos wrote:To give you an idea of my ability: I struggle on hard 11s (can follow them without a problem). My goal, to get on multi-pitch climbs with ratings like 5.9 A1 or 5.10 A2 (what does that even mean?).

If you're asking what aid ratings mean, you could start by reading a book so you understand the definitions.

As a rule of thumb don't expect to find a quality, thorough answer on MP. I'd like to know the same thing.

A1/C1 means bomber gear thats straightforward to place. It also generally means that there isn't anything particularly awkward or strenuous about the pitch.

A2/C2 used to mean gear as good as A1/C1, but strenuous or awkward plaements. A2/C2 in the more modern rating system tends to mean some marginal placements interspersed with solid gear.

The main thing is practice. Most people are very slow at aid climbing when they start out. It takes a while to develop an efficient way of going.

If you're planning on climbs with short sections of aid, your tried-and-true A0 methods will suffice. If you're looking at climbs with significant stretches of aid, buy some aiders, get a good text on aid climbing, and practice.

Josh Kornish wrote:As a rule of thumb don't expect to find a quality, thorough answer on MP. I'd like to know the same thing.

We are working on changing that attitude. Especially in the Beginner's forum.

Efficiency is often a more limiting factor than fear. I imagine you can make your way up anything short of hooking with your current skill set, so most C2 pitches would be a reasonable challenge. Expect it to take a lot longer than you ever dreamed possible, though. Learn to step high and reach far.
The logistics part will be a new skill set altogether, so it's hard to say if you'll find that easy or hard.

edit to add:
If you make your own etriers with loops that are too floppy, you'll probably lose some time with every placement struggling to get your feet into the steps. I tried out several systems before settling on some Fish ladders and an adjustable daisy. Try borrowing someone else's setup to see what you like/don't like.

Jeffeos wrote: 5.9 A1 or 5.10 A2 (what does that even mean?).

A route that includes A2 and mandatory 5.10 free climbing... though the definition of "mandatory" is pretty loose.

Jeffeos wrote:How hard should I expect to aid right out of the gate?

Thoughts from a beginner aider: In my very limited experience, A2 is kinda like a PG free climb, maybe a handful of sketchy moves above bomber gear. Start playing with hooks as long as its safe to fall, and be prepared for everything to take FOREVER.

Chris Mac is working on a Big Wall book that should provide a lot of answers and right now it's free. Bigwalls.net has some good information too as well as Long's BW book. If you really want to aid climb it'll take time to develop efficiency and speed but the benefit is you'll get a lot better at placing gear in any situation.

supertopo.com/a/How-To-Big-…

cjdrover wrote: A route that includes A2 and mandatory 5.10 free climbing... though the definition of "mandatory" is pretty loose.

I think it makes more sense in the other direction: It's a 5.10 route with mandatory A2.

I bet if you've been climbing long enough you've used some c2 placements on any given trad climb because that's all you had. With today's modern conveniences of offset nuts, and cams c3 is the new c2.

Lets elaborate a little more on what the aid ratings mean.
Basically A rated climbs are called not clean climbs and you will probably need to hammer something in (like wedges and such)
The C rated climbs are called clean aid climbs and you do not need to use a hammer on the route, so this is just using Cams/nuts/already fixed gear/hooks.

Thee Higher the number gets attached to the letter basically means that the placements are getting sketchier and sketchier. Some of the trickier stuff uses Hook moves that you just hang on or a placement that will only support your body weight and not a lot of bounce. So they are harder to get in well and even when they are in they will not hold well. That also translates to, if you fall you will probably fall farther since some of the other pieces will pull off the rock.

Ross Keller wrote:A1/C1 means bomber gear thats straightforward to place. It also generally means that there isn't anything particularly awkward or strenuous about the pitch.

I don't find this to always be the case. I've found many C1 pitches to be very strenuous. For example, Kor Roof of Washington Column and, even more strenuous, the first 4 pitches on Lost Arrow Spire direct. Aiding wide pitches can be extremely difficult and strenuous even if the placements are strong.

I guess my point is - be careful when selecting your first "C1" aid climb. There is a lot more variability to the grades than free climbing (which is pretty variably in itself at times)

Peter Franzen wrote: We are working on changing that attitude. Especially in the Beginner's forum.

I'm all for it!

A0 is pulling o gear to further progress-totally bomber (uaully only used to reference a bolt ladder)

A1 all placements are bomber, little danger of actually falling (though it may be awkward, and if you can't place trad gear well you may take a fall due to pilot error)

A2 similar to A1 but with a few "body weight only" placements here and there, fall potential up to 30 feet, not particularly dangerous though (however i have led some terrifying A2, and i consider myself a solid A4 leader in the valley)

A3 more body weight placements in a row than A2, fall potential 30-50 feet, perhaps a sprained ankle or a bad slabby fall (a.k.a. it is more dangerous)

A4 even more body weight only placements, 50-100 foot falls, shattered pelvis, broken femur, that kind of stuff...definitely a DFU zone

A5 from what i understand, you fall and you die...ive always heard "its all A1 until you fall"

A6 you fall, rip all your gear including your anchor, you and your partner die

from what i've noticed it seems that any aid rating with a "+" after it (example: A2+) means that pitch is strenuous (the gear is trickier or it is a roof crack or an awkward groove)

as for getting aid gear, definitely ask around because everyone has there own setup,
disclaimer: im not saying mine is the best, it is just what i like the most
i carry 2 sewn dasies with a fifihook and 2 yates ladder style aiders. BD big gun harness, Nforce ascenders (I can use my index finger to trigger them, i like it) yates bigwall chest harness (its sooo comfortable) and la sportiva Ganda's (they hold up really well to the abuse of walls, and I can free pretty hard in them compared to the 50 thousands other approachers ive tried and destroyed)

also your ability to free climb pretty much has nothing at all to do with your ability to aid climb. knowing how to place gear in tricky sections is most important. your ability to understand clusterF*%@!s out the wazoo is crucial, take a big set of nuts (taken in whatever ambiguous way it could be taken), patience while learning, and knowing when to bail....living is alot better than dying trying to be a badass....right?

keep looking around at other forums, get ready to drop some serious cash, and get psyched...aid climbing is awesome

being on a bigwall is like laying on an asphalt parking lot in deep south georgia in the middle of july being beaten senseless by rednecks, and then fed to wild animals...its why we do it....duh

Thanks for the constructive comments. Seems like the consideration here is how comfortable/proficient you are with gear more than general climbing ability and strength.
This is starting to sound cool!
In my early days of climbing (only like 6 or 7 years ago) my rack consisted of the stoppers I found in the bushes below the South Face of the Redgarden, making my early ascents an adventure of similar mentality.