Is stick clipping 1st bolt cheating?

yes, cheating and after you send make sure you let everyone you tell that you sent how you cheated.

Is a crash pad for a short unprotected start cheating? I don't think so, its just protection.

In the end it's really just up to what satisfies you... If the fall is bad, then a stick clip is a great idea. Maybe it could be considered cheating if the crux of the route is before the first bolt (You'd then be TRing the crux in effect).

AntinJ wrote: JW, Any examples of Front Range Sport crags where this is the ethic?

Sucking My Will to Live at CCC would be nice with a stick clip. I've always just climbed it, but if there was a stick laying around, or someone with a stickclip I wouldn't hesitate to use it. I'd hate to take that fall and go plummeting down into the river and have to be rescued out of there. Would it negate my send? Hell no! Because I could give a crap how you sent it, the way the FA intended it to be sent, some 70/80's era archaic ground up rules, MP's stance, or 8a.nu's stance on the subject. I'm not getting paid for this hobbie of mine and I have no intention of getting paid. No one questioned Dave Graham's send of The Fly a 14d with only two bolts and both were stick clipped for the send. He still got paid and I'm sure he doesn't care about some oldschoolers idea of a proper send.

The New River Gorge is full of routes that are safer with a stickclip. I highly doubt Roger, Doug Reed, Brian McCray, or Porter Jarrard is going to show up and ticket you for stickclipping the first bolt.

It depends if you want to do things in good style or not. If you don't care, use the stick clip. If you want the full experience, skip the stick. You've got to make your own decision.

Keenan Waeschle wrote:if you don't stick clip the first bolt on dreamcatcher you're looking at 15 or so feet of 12c slab with a 25 or 30 foot fall onto jagged rocks.

Sounds like a really long stick!

Cheating. Shit, sport climbing is damn near cheating, best not to make it worse.

Well Ryan, we talked a lot about this post. But still here are my thoughts.

First and fore most: I am sorry I can't spell.
Second: To each his or her own, I climb because it is fun, to me not stick clipping something with a cruxy or some how dangerous start, that's not fun.

My example route is Finger Prince 13a CCC, If you were to fall before clipping the first you would pull your belayer off with you and both of you would probably end up dead... There is more to it than just that but you would be looking at a serious fall. But with a stick clip you will be fine pretty much whatever you end up doing.

Go have fun, climb and be safe.

I like the way Alex Honnold puts it "It doesn't make a huge difference to me if I'm on bolts or on gear or pads or whatever, it's like either you're climbing or you're not"

vimeo.com/6052030 2:09 in

Oh! and the quote is about two minutes in...

Sorry I thought i added that in.

In my opinion yes. If you're trying to work the route then top rope it. If you're trying to lead it then lead it. However, climbing is an individual sport so if you want to then go for it!

No! This is climbing not clipping...

It depends on what you're looking for in the route. If you want a bold route where its mental and physical - don't stick clip it.

If you want to purely focus on the physical aspects of the climb and or have fun - do what works for you. It just might not always be right to say you did it on-sight, flash, like the FA, etc...

Theres also a difference if you're stick clipping because your lazy, or because a fall before the first clip is actually a safety issue.

Brendan

My vote is to stick clip and enjoy the climbing rather than not stick clip it due to some personal ethic and break both you ankles.

The bottom line is that the only person who cares is you.

You will have to decide what is worth more to you: fulfilling some arbitrarily designated belief that not stick clipping leads to nirvana or keeping yourself safe. If stick clipping is cheating, why is any roped climbing legitmate.

None of us are at a level that the climbing community will notice the style in which we climb an established sport route.

We are all at the level where our families, friends, spouses, or children will notice if they need to care for our invalid selves or cope with our deaths.

Evan

I wonder if anyone has done the start of Surf's Up / Fraidline / Freeline in Eldo without stick-clipping the first piton. I bet even Honnold stick-clipped it.

I never used one when I lived near the Wasatch, but now that I'm in Moab, I own one. One of my favorite sport climbs down here is a stiff ten with the first bolt at the crux at 18 feet off the deck.

Owen Darrow wrote:No! This is climbing not clipping...

Best explanation so far, +1

This thread is retarded. Its not uncommon at all for the route bolter to set the route up this way for his FFA. If you choose to risk ankles, that's your business.
Everyone who unilaterally states that's its wrong really need to go out and those sticks pulled out of their asses, and then of course use them to clip those high first bolts.

Mike Lane wrote: Several routes at Shelf; cruxy, bad un-boltable rock off the deck. We've got a few at Castlewood too...

I saw a couple last week at the Bank stick clipping the second and third bolts. Later I saw them "sieging" a route by stick clipping the second bolt, yarding up the rope with stick attached to the harness and clipping the next reachable bolt, all the way to the top to set a TR. It was amusing to watch but if that's how they want to play the game who am I to care.

To each his own.

JasonH wrote: Dude, I completely disagree. These threads are awesome! Bumblers with strong opinions about things they have been doing for like 6 months. I mean where else can you get a bunch of clowns with below-average ability pretending they are badass because they don't know how to use a climbing tool - oh yeah, the gri-gris are dangerous threads, too... Anyways, now that we have a bunch of you in one thread I was wondering what clippy things you guys use to attach your water bottles to your backpack with (I usually have 4 bottles and two sets of keys)? I just want to choose the right ones, so when I walk down the street everyone knows I am a hardcore rock scaler that would never be caught dead using a stick clip or gri-gri.

Ovals

I can think of a few front range examples where stick clipping the first bolt is a pretty good idea.
Lucid Dreaming- Boulder Canyon
Lucky Strikes - Boulder Canyon
Anarchitect - Clear Creek
War on Freedom - Boulder Canyon
Pinchfest - Rifle
The Webb - Eldorado Canyon

JasonH wrote: Dude, I completely disagree. These threads are awesome! Bumblers with strong opinions about things they have been doing for like 6 months. I mean where else can you get a bunch of clowns with below-average ability pretending they are badass because they don't know how to use a climbing tool - oh yeah, the gri-gris are dangerous threads, too... Anyways, now that we have a bunch of you in one thread I was wondering what clippy things you guys use to attach your water bottles to your backpack with (I usually have 4 bottles and two sets of keys)? I just want to choose the right ones, so when I walk down the street everyone knows I am a hardcore rock scaler that would never be caught dead using a stick clip or gri-gri.

I attach my nalgene to my backpack with whatever biner is having the most fun.