Public Opinion Survey: Top Roping Freestanding Pillars

Just curious about the feelings in the MP ice community on "Top-Roping" free standing pillars.

(NOTE: Not leading then top roping, but walking around and dropping a rope and doing laps)

Tits McGee wrote:Just curious about the feelings in the MP ice community on "Top-Roping" free standing pillars. (NOTE: Not leading then top roping, but walking around and dropping a rope and doing laps)

Get there first, do what you will (!).

I guess if a super well known classic, that only came in from time-to-time, and, was in "leadable" condition, and, you showed up and monopolized for a whole day of TRin' with a large group, then, that might suck for folks who came later.

As far as "using it up"? Ie, TRin' it so it becomes not safe to lead?

Early bird gets the worm I suppose. Can be a limited resource.

I'd say, get your business done, don't leave a TR just hanging with no one climbing...

Eds: Top Roping a climb that is above your lead ability. Not rising to the level of the climb, but lowering it your ability.

We already discussed Tits so I won't put that here but you really have 2 parts to the question:

A) Top roping climbs, any climb
B) Top roping ice climbs as it relates to "using" the community resource

Same can be said of some of the mixed lines in Vail... dog knows those holds break off left and right. Glad the last one broke off on me while TR'ing and not leading!

Tits McGee wrote:Eds: Top Roping a climb that is above your lead ability. Not rising to the level of the climb, but lowering it your ability.

"Lowering the climb to your ablity" implies modifying the route somehow, but if I top rope it and swing lightly then you can hardly claim I'm bringing the route down to my level. If you're feeling impatient with groups that show up and monopolize the route all day, wake up earlier than they do.

nut up or shut up, versus getting some quantity mileage on frozen water....

don't really care

Chris Plesko wrote:We already discussed Tits so I won't put that here but you really have 2 parts to the question: A) Top roping climbs, any climb B) Top roping ice climbs as it relates to "using" the community resource

Actually, what we discussed was a bit different. Everyone Top Ropes, but not everyone walks around to the top of a climb that they are unable to lead and drops a rope. Some people work up to that lead ability, not just taking the short cut to the climb.

Obviously it's the consensus that nobody cares about if a pillar is top roped to death. See y'all at Hidden Falls.

Tits McGee wrote: Actually, what we discussed was a bit different. Everyone Top Ropes, but not everyone walks around to the top of a climb that they are unable to lead and drops a rope. Some people work up to that lead ability, not just taking the short cut to the climb. Obviously it's the consensus that nobody cares about if a pillar is top roped to death. See y'all at Hidden Falls.

I'm not sure what you're looking for as a response. The number of people who are unwilling to TR something they can't lead? That's still not an ice specific question really, except as it relates to traffic a particular climb sees. Do you care if someone climbed the Dez on TR or do you just know that the guy who lead it really did the harder climb? Are you unwilling to do an X rated rock climb on top rope? Is it not worth climbing if you can't ever see yourself leading it?

Personally I don't care whether you climb something ground up or on TR or after TR rehersal so long as you're honest about how you did it. For me, many things are training climbs, skill builders, and I like being able to build my skills in a safe environment (TR) sometimes. I feel the restriction of needing someone to rope gun the climb for me so I can "second" it isn't any different than just dropping a TR on it. Regardless, working your way thru the grades or TRing stuff you aren't ready to lead yet is a stylistic question and everyone is certain entitled to their own viewpoint. If someone only wants to climb on top rope in a gym, who am I to argue? They find enjoyment in it so awesome.

Now do top rope accessible ice climbs see more traffic? Sure they do. Sometimes do I wish the ice was always fresh? Sure I do. But at the end of the day I don't think that's something you can impose on others either. If you want fresh ice, go where it is. It just takes a little more driving or a little further walk. Not usually any crowds at Black Lake right? Nor at Cody?

I'm not saying people should bash the shit out of ice on TR, it's still a community resourse to share. But just because you can lead it doesn't, in my opinion, give your party the right to run laps on it over a party who has to walk around back and drop a TR on it.

dunk tits in the creek....wait, what did I just say?

Chris - I am not looking for any specific response - as mentioned in the title of the thread. Just seeing what people think about it. I have been open with my view on it, and was curious to see what other ice climbers in the community felt about it. I don't take offense to anyone's views, I am not trying to condemn the practice of "walk around" ice climbing, nor am I trying to keep anyone from doing it.

on a side note - I am willing to wake up earlier, drive further and walk longer for good ice. If that's what it takes then that's what I do.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Except Mark Nelson.

Tits McGee wrote:I am willing to wake up earlier, drive further and walk longer for good ice. If that's what it takes then that's what I do.

I can confirm that Tits is willing to wake up at whatever un-Godly hour is required!!

I say TR the hell out of em. Smash em and bash em till their barely hanging.
Anyone that's going to lead them knows they are scary anyway!!!!

Edit: Bring it Tits...I'll wake up earliest, drive the farthest. And walk the longest............to find the climb isn't in. DUH!!!!

Is there an ethical dilemma when you snap a crampon and shit your pants on lead?

I shoulda top roped it, I shoulda top roped it -- But I didn't and sent that mthr f'r

Ask Tits, he knows.

Mark Nelson wrote:Is there an ethical dilemma when you snap a crampon and shit your pants on lead? I shoulda top roped it, I shoulda top roped it -- But I didn't and sent that mthr f'r

I don't know but if you lose a crampon, don't just try to kick the ice in panic with the non-cramponed foot. That. does. not. work. Owww.

Just as when a TR is on a route I would like to lead I just ask them if they mind me leading it. No on has ever said they wouldn't let me lead it especially if I hang their rope back up. If they said no I would pack my stuff to the car, put on my running shoes come back and cut their TR anchors. It is amazing how loud webbing screams when it has been cut.

I don't climb in a crowded area so folks are pretty considerate around here. I also think that most folks that are too afraid to lead something would be psyched to see it get lead.

Never mind, get up earlier, hang a TR so no one who wants to TR can claim it, then only let folks who want to lead it on the pillar.

Can't figure out a way around the get up early part. Wait, go out the night before thaw five or six good steaks put the blood in a nalgene, set spread that all around the base with some medical supply wrappers then set up your own TR and follow the above advice.

Stephen Berwanger wrote:Bring it Tits...I'll wake up earliest, drive the farthest. And walk the longest............to find the climb isn't in. DUH!!!!

Well, it's a shame I have to wait until next season to find out.

And real men jump on the lead OS Ground up, lose the crampon, keep it together, drill a screw, clip and then hop up the rest of the climb or is that just too much for you to handle, Nelson?