New routes at the Stronghold

Whoever is putting up the new hard line on the sweet wall in the stronghold is a badass!

Actually the badass is Daryl Allen. Headed out to Sweet Rock to camp and on the way busted a leaf spring on my camper. Daryl showed up with a welder, 5000 watt generator and enough redneck to patched it up good enough to get me home. He's one badass climbing partner. You rock Daryl!!!

Now THAT's a great climbing partner! Nice work Daryl!

lol, It wasn't very fair. He lured me out with promises of beer and hot climber chicks... a dirty rat that guy! ;)

Yeah Daryl is a good partner, he took me to his house and let me eat his wife's super tasty food. Doesn't get much better then that.

the new hard line at sweet rock that i am talking about is the line that is left of cracker jack . it only has 3 bolts i tried it a few times. it is hard as shit cool route. bad as line cant wait till its done.

Yeah we all know what you meant were just not stooping down your level to argue with you about the rights and wrongs of crossing others route lines.

Yeah, Daryl is a badass!

Wow, who is wearing that Beanfest shirt anyway? (heehee, sorry if it's your wife Daryl..or not sorry, you lucky bastard..)

I'd get involved with the new crossing-CJ route discussion, but I'd probably find some way to directly contradict what I said on the other thread about the Rockfellow issue..

Anyway, thanks Mike and Daryl for some fun-ass routes.

Hey Christian have you seen Flight 666 yet? I didn't know you were a Maiden fan!

Well, so far my attempts at dodging route development ethics arguments are holding strong. Actually - just FYI, I spoke with the new route developer and he seems pretty sincere and level-headed. Nothing drastic has happened at this point so I'm thinking we could all benefit from gathering around the sweet rock fire pit with some beer and figuring this thing out. It's really easy to get fired up during the week thinking about the worst that can happen. It's even easier, however, to plop down, consume some liquid bread and talk face to face like the civilized dirtbags we all aspire to one day be. How abooouuuuutt... tomorrow? =)

(mmmm.... beeeerrr)

Geir Hundal wrote:Yeah, Daryl is a badass!

lmao! I dunno Geir. I've seen Jimbo climb and as long as we're calling him a badass, i don't think i can be called the same. Then again... it's leaps and bounds better than what i have been called in the past!

edit:
And besides, anyone that whips out a stenopad two feet below the bolt, runout on 11c windshield slab and starts jotting down notes calling ME a badass is just mind boggling!! lmao!

Christian wrote:Wow, who is wearing that Beanfest shirt anyway? (heehee, sorry if it's your wife Daryl..or not sorry, you lucky bastard..)

Oh, the beanfest shirt was just me having some photoshop fun with a pic i found online. The flared splitter was Lynn... yes i know, i'm in waaaay over my head. I hear it all the time... "What the ?? How'd you land that???"

Daryl Allan wrote: Oh, the beanfest shirt was just me having some photoshop fun with a pic i found online. The flared splitter was Lynn... yes i know, i'm in waaaay over my head. I hear it all the time... "What the ?? How'd you land that???"

Flared splitter!? Haha, that's pretty epic man. heehee

Daryl Allan wrote:Hey Christian have you seen Flight 666 yet? I didn't know you were a Maiden fan! Well, so far my attempts at dodging route development ethics arguments are holding strong. Actually - just FYI, I spoke with the new route developer and he seems pretty sincere and level-headed. Nothing drastic has happened at this point so I'm thinking we could all benefit from gathering around the sweet rock fire pit with some beer and figuring this thing out. It's really easy to get fired up during the week thinking about the worst that can happen. It's even easier, however, to plop down, consume some liquid bread and talk face to face like the civilized dirtbags we all aspire to one day be. How abooouuuuutt... tomorrow? =) (mmmm.... beeeerrr)

Beeeeeeer..damn it, when did I start channeling Homer?

Hell yeah UP THE IRONS beotch!!!

Saw them in concert in Rio in '85 (god-damn I's old)..

I think you got the right idea about the new route..

Shit, Scott A and I and some crew are headed to South Park tomorrow..

Weird how Person A is way cool, Person B likewise, but don't put them together or else..

Must be that C27H40O3 stuff, seems to at least level off a bit when you have kids..

Have fun tomorrow.

Im down for the beer!

Daryl Allan wrote:And besides, anyone that whips out a stenopad two feet below the bolt, runout on 11c windshield slab and starts jotting down notes calling ME a badass is just mind boggling!! lmao!

LOL!

Christian wrote:Weird how Person A is way cool, Person B likewise, but don't put them together or else.

You got that right!

Have fun all, be careful climbing this weekend, and send something hard (Especially Christian, who is climbing 10x harder than ever)

Not wanting to start an argument here, I didnt know it was an issue to cross other people routes. Puting up lines is hard work, and no one owns the rock. If its done in good style, then lets just go climb them (if we can climb that hard!)

Hey Cota-

Good to hear from you. You're absolutely right that no single person owns the rock. And it's good that you're shooting to put up lines in good style.

Whether or not routes should cross depends on the situation. Generally speaking, it's acceptable for multipitch routes to cross, with the caveat that bolts aren't placed on a previously existing traditional line.

In single pitch areas, however, routes cross a lot less often, primarily because it gives a bit of a crowded feeling when routes are packed in closely.

If in doubt about crossing a specific line, a good rule of thumb is to ask around and see what the larger community thinks.

hay yall this is the guy that is actually putting up the new line at sweet rock. all i have to say is WTF. do you not have anything better to do but bitch. this is a sick line. just go with it. life is to short to get all worked up over a new climb at a sport crag. we are all hear to have fun. well at least i am. and to this cota guy thanks for liking the climb.and to all that hate i love ya anyway peace love and good rock.

Against my better judgement, I'm going to say something here. Besides, bitching isn't really bitching unless it's coming from a woman...

From an innocent (hey, no laughing) bystander, the question that comes to mind right off the bat is:

With all of the miles of rock at Cochise, why would someone want to squeeze another line in between two existing routes on a crag that already sees wall-to-wall climbers most weekends?

Daryl Allan wrote:he seems pretty sincere and level-headed.

Okay okay, before anyone else beats me to it.. I've once again dined on my own diction, perhaps blinded by my optimism.

Regardless, it appears at this point that we would be most prudent to follow advice given to us my some of the more seasoned route developers on this subject. That is, "this sort of thing will happen - you need to just deal with it".

The reality of the situation is that these are public climbing areas and since no one owns them, it's only a matter of time before folks with contrasting route development ethics cross paths (pun not intended).

And just so it's clear, my understanding is that no one is disputing the quality of the line or how "sick" it is. We've watched dozens of people work that line on top rope over the last couple years. The issue at hand is whether or not the line is worth developing as an alternate start to an existing route. And since I'm on the rant and this is a public forum where not everyone may have the entire history of what's going on, here are the facts so that everyone knows the score:

To the immediate right of the "new line":
Cracker Jack is a mixed line that was started but never completed. There are two bolts in the first 35 feet of it then it stopped at a ledge. Since there are no bolts on otherwise unprotectable rock above the ledge, it was assumed that the route was a walk-off to the chossy gully over to the left of Peanut Brittle or simply never finished (or X runout to next pro, 30' up). After exhausting all efforts to find the developer, the route was finished several months ago by installing a bolt on the face above the ledge (protects 10a move 12+ feet past a small stopper placement at ledge) and anchors at the top.

To the immediate left of the "new line":
Peanut Brittle (5.9). Sport route with anchors roughly 10 feet from Cracker Jack anchors.

To the right of Cracker Jack:
A new line being put up with bolts marked and anchors already installed several feet over from Cracker Jack. Ends by pulling over largest overhanging section of split head wall up top (85/90')

When we looked at putting the route up, after noticing all the attention it received on top rope, it was clear the only way it could finish was to merge with and share an anchor with PB or CJ or cross CJ, head to the right and end at what would be that new route right of CJ. So you end up with about 30 feet of 5.12 climbing that finishes on 5.8/5.9 sections of established routes. That being said, the only other option was half way anchors which look horrible from the ground to hikers/campers on an already heavily developed wall. At the end, it just didn't seem worth it... well to us, anyway.

And that leads us back to where we are; we don't all have the same views on what should and shouldn't be done in terms of route development... simple as that i suppose.

One suggestion i would make to the developer, if i may, is to leave a red tag/marker on the first bolt if you're not going to bolt the route all at once. If you don't want to mark your bolts first then drill/bolt them all in one day, you might want to leave a marker so that someone doesn't start the route and get stranded run out on 5.11/12 climbing. This is also done on glue-in bolted routes as well. Most (but likely not all) folks will know what a red tag means and not attempt the route. Sounds like Cota already took a whack at it and hopefully was able to safely lower off without incident. Wouldn't want anyone else to get injured finding out it's not a completed route. Just a suggestion so that someone doesn't get hurt out there.