Welcome Home Lance Hering!

Cpt. E wrote:ask any iraqi woman if she's outraged about her new rights.

Capt. I'm not sure if your being acrimonious. A quick search on keywords "Iraqi women rights" will reveal some unfortunate consequences. You can oust a leader but you cannot change a culture overnight-
washington post article

Women Lose Ground in the New Iraq
Once They Were Encouraged to Study and Work; Now Life Is 'Just Like Being in Jail'

By Nancy Trejos
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 16, 2006

Kirra, this shit is 2 years old.

but yeah,there still is a long ways to go. it took a while for women and minorities to get equal rights here as well.

Cpt. E wrote:Kirra, this shit is 2 years old. but yeah, there still is a long ways to go. it took a while for women and minorities to get equal rights here as well.

I know the date of the article, you missd my point. Here's another one from this month if you need: WP 12-07-08

"women & minorities" here in the US have a completely different environment to foster rights of equality than over in the middle east. So what's your point..?

Bob D'Antonio wrote: That is fucking hilarious, Rush and the rest of the right wing wankers make a living off blaming lefties...you bought their spew of shit hook, line and sinker

You see Bob this is a perfect example of the leftist finger pointing. As soon as someone disagrees with the lefts bullshit you attack. I've read back through allot of your posts and it seams like anyone who has less then a "saintly" opinion of your socialistic god Obama, you fly off the handle making personal attacks. I agree that Bush is a complete failure in many ways, but I believe you and the rest of the liberals are going to be sadly disappointed as Obama continues to go back on his campaign promises.

point being that it doesnt happen overnight.

John P. wrote: You see Bob this is a perfect example of the leftist finger pointing. As soon as someone disagrees with the lefts bullshit you attack. I've read back through allot of your posts and it seams like anyone who has less then a "saintly" opinion of your socialistic god Obama, you fly off the handle making personal attacks. I agree that Bush is a complete failure in many ways, but I believe you and the rest of the liberals are going to be sadly disappointed as Obama continues to go back on his campaign promises.

And this is a perfect example of how people can't see that both parties pull the same shit. All the time. Yet they somehow think their own party is high and mighty and squeaky clean. For any transgression that you can lay on a lefty, I'll give you 10 of the same that go to the right. And vice versa. It has to do with the nearly hard-wired human characteristic of believing that they're always right.

Richard Radcliffe wrote: And this is a perfect example of how people can't see that both parties pull the same shit. All the time. Yet they somehow think their own party is high and mighty and squeaky clean. For any transgression that you can lay on a lefty, I'll give you 10 of the same that go to the right. And vice versa. It has to do with the nearly hard-wired human characteristic of believing that they're always right.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

John P. wrote: Exactly the point I was trying to make.

You did a pretty miserable job of it.

brooks8970 wrote: You did a pretty miserable job of it.

Beat me to it.

Cpt. E wrote:point being that it doesnt happen overnight.

agreed.. but it also may never happen (or for several generations). The US invasion has caused a civil war in Iraq. I'm not giving up hope but you have to be realistic about Islamic & Tribal cultures - this is who they are

"Iraq's constitution states that men and women are equal under the law. But it also states that no laws can be passed that are inconsistent with Islam, allowing for ultraconservative interpretations"

"Without changing the way society thinks, changing laws on paper is useless"

Capt.E it seems that you may be trying to justify the invasion. In hindsight, even GWB finally expressed his doubts about his rationale for going into this war. It should not be our country's goal to convert everyone into Americans before we will "sit down with them" (obama-palin debate)

I realize that this thread has been debated to death, but it's been a long time since Lance pulled his little stunt, and I've been soul-searching ever since that first fruitless day I spent searching for him.
Politics aside, WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG.
When a "climber" commits an act that he KNOWS will put others at risk to save him, noone on this site or any other would be expected to cut him an inch of slack. Putting aside his service with the Marines and his misdemeanors with Boulder County, surely everyone can agree that his faked disappearance was self serving and small-minded, at the very least.
He likely knew full well the furor that would ensue when Steve P made his initial 911 call, and used that as a smokescreen to effect his escape.
I personally witnessed the tears of frustration shed by former Marines, searchers, Boy Scouts, Salvation Army volunteers and his own family when the search yielded no evidence of his whereabouts.
I am a former Marine myself, and I can tell you I have nothing but the deepest respect for those who serve as Lance did.
PTSD? Maybe, I'll never know till the made for TV movie comes out. But from what I can gather, there is a history of this kind of behavior from him before he VOLUNTARILY enlisted in a branch of the service that practically guaranteed combat experience.
Take his claim that he was an "urban explorer" when he was arrested on Savers. As someone who does his fair share of urban exploring, I can promise you that wearing a ski mask and running from the cops is not something that anyone involved in that activity with half a brain would ever put forth. Just as in climbing, there are guidelines of behavior and etiquette. Some things you just don't do.
I'm disappointed that he has opted to avoid taking ANY responsibility for his history of poor decisions.
Everyone makes mistakes. But when we make mistakes that put others at risk (ask the searcher next to me who put her foot into a nest of rattlesnakes while searching for Lance if she felt happy to be put in that situation if she knew Lance was sitting on a Greyhound at that moment), we have a system in place that SHOULD mete out fair and just punishment to those people.
This isn't about Bush or Obama or Fannie Mae or even the war in Iraq.
This is about someone who lied, committed crimes, ran from his responsibilities and is hiding behind the sympathies of people who want to believe that his actions are the solely the fault of his circumstances.
The people on this site or in the Boulder community that deify him and endorse his decisions are, in my opinion, more interested in flaunting their own politics than scrutinizing what he actually did.
As a climber, veteran, non-paid professional rescuer, part-time urban explorer and thinking,caring human being, I am outraged by the entire situation.
Both the USMC and Boulder County have been more than accomodating to his attorney's requests for leniency. To the extreme.
Lance Hering (and not his hired attorney)owes EVERYONE a huge personal apology- and most importantly- explanation for his actions.
Stop cutting this guy so much slack. He isn't worth your pity.

Wow. Wise....and justly condemning, without harshness.

Tom, that was great!

One more thing.... how does applauding Lance Hering actions advance Lance Hering as a person?

Tom Wood wrote: Stop cutting this guy so much slack. He isn't worth your pity.

Tom, Great post. All of it. Tho I think this one statement best describes how I feel about the whole matter.

Tom Wood wrote:This is about someone who lied, committed crimes, ran from his responsibilities and is hiding behind the sympathies of people who want to believe that his actions are the solely the fault of his circumstances.

That sums it up powerfully.

Tom Wood wrote:The people on this site or in the Boulder community that deify him and endorse his decisions are, in my opinion, more interested in flaunting their own politics than scrutinizing what he actually did.

That's a heck of a cherry on top.

Bob D'Antonio wrote: Nice rant...the kid has issues and will pay for his mistakes and to point already has.

How do you figure he has already paid? He has gotten no punishment for desertion except for a discharge(which is what he wanted)and a little time served. I honestly don't think the city of Boulder is going to do much for a few petty crimes. He hasn't paid and probably never will.

Robert 560 wrote: How do you figure he has already paid? He has gotten no punishment for desertion except for a discharge(which is what he wanted)and a little time served. I honestly don't think the city of Boulder is going to do much for a few petty crimes. He hasn't paid and probably never will.

What do you want him to "pay"? He spent over 30 days in jail before his discharge. According to this past weekends Rocky Mtn News, he (with his families help) is planning on paying back the $30,000+ spent on the search. Do you want him to spend a little more time for false reporting/probation violation? Or do you want him shot? (like John P and others have said)

This was not an isolated circumstance of a soldier deserting. Only the circumstances surrounding his disappearance are unique. A quick search of the internet brings forth several articles regarding the increasing numbers of soldiers deserting...

"Desertions from the Army have gone up 80 percent since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, and officials concede the strain of multiple combat tours is a factor.
Roughly nine of every 1,000 soldiers deserted in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, the highest rate in nearly three decades and up from about seven of every 1,000 the year before."

"Pentagon officials yesterday said the Marines have remained steady at about 1,000 deserters a year."

If you shoot every one of these deserters, the numbers of U.S. dead caused by this war would easily quadruple.

Lance shouldn't be held up on shoulders - but nor should he be subjected to a harsher punishment than the other THOUSANDS who have deserted in this war alone.

(above quotes taken from the article below)
nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/…

Go to bed, Derek. Fun to see you at the gym tonight. Merry Christmas.

Bob D'Antonio wrote: Funny you didn't say that to Tom Woods.

It wasn't midnight then. :)

Tom, nice post, just one thing. Forgiving Lance is not the same as endorsing him. Right or wrong, I choose to forgive him.