Quickdraws taken off of Finger Prince in CCC

I am going to be nice and assume that whoever removed my quickdraws from Finger Prince in Clear Creek Canyon was unaware that people sometimes leave hardware on harder rock climbs and thought that they were booty. It is hard to believe that a climber capable of sending that route would steal those draws. At this point I simply request a no questions asked return. If you or someone you know removed those quickdraws please email me at cassidy@eldoradocamping.com or just send the draws anonymously to

Cassidy Hill
544 Canyon View Drive
Golden, CO 80403

Thank you for your understanding and no hard feelings.
-Cass

bump

no one wants to tell him it was his fault for leaving them there? i thought that's what we do on this site when someone loses their draws after leaving them on a hard route.

Unfortunately it is the nature of the beast. It sucks people are like that but yeah. My guess is you wont get them back. There is a fine line between ones hanging treasure and that of hanging garbage or booty.

Every time I hang my proj draws I leave expecting them not to be there when I return.
If it were someone doing a "community service" or clean up they would have posted here before you.
Ya got jacked i think.
Sorry man.

nope - it's going to be looked at as property abandonment, similar to trash in containers in alleyways, driveways, etc.

PRRose wrote: In what way do you think that project draws are like property disposed of in a trash can? Are you suggesting that when you park your car, you're abandoning it?

HAHAHAHa.
thats funny.

i think what he is saying is that if you hang your cool LED keychain on the fence post by your parked car that is considered abondoned and the person who picked it up does not fall under
peniscode 18-4-401

But man is that guy siked he got a new flashlight.

Cass,
Did you post on this site before you hung them? Maybe a warning/disclaimer so someone knew you were at least coming back?

Sucks to hear that Cass
There have been (or were at least) fixed draws on several WOJ routes (hanging judge, great escape, slammer...)

Did they take those also or just take yours??

i always believed this was like leaving stashed pads in some aspects

PRRose wrote: Maybe he is saying that, but the only real difference is that a keychain is more portable than a car. "Abandoned" has a meaning in the law--it is property that the owner does not intend to return to. If you forget your wallet on the counter at a store, you mislaid it, but you didn't abandon it. If you leave your car in a parking lot, you have neither mislaid nor abandoned it--you know where you left it and you intend to return. OP left draws with the intention of reclaiming them. They are neither abandoned nor mislaid property. Taking them was arguably theft.

as always argued as theft.
But..
Did the draws have an ID? Name badge? A note with the intent or the ETA on return?
Seems like just mobile key chains blowing in the wind.
Cars are totally different. Sometimes I wish some dirtbag would take mine while outclimbing.

Again. Not saying the "draw remover" was just in removing them. Just playing devils advocate. It just seems like so many people are astonished by such an occurance but when really its sort of the reality of this world. I am amazed every day my draws still hang untouched.

Cass If you send the route. You can have them :) :P

Just out of curiosity -- has there been recent criminal prosecution with a basis in civil case law?

What are you guys talking about? Who cares whether lifting draws on an overhanging 5.13 is illegal or not? It's wrong and anybody advocating that it's a legal grey area is completely missing the point. I'm assuming that the OP didn't just leave one draw or biner as if he were bailing due to weather. Usually folks leave the route completely equipped so they are ready for the next redpoint attempt. This is standard sport climbing tactics. If somebody else wants to climb the route, they clip the draws and leave them in place when done. We as climbers owe it to the OP to work our social networks, find the perps (because more than likely somebody was belaying), and shame them into submission.

anybody hiking up to highwire passing every sport climbing walking around the corner to wall of justice where the lowest rated quality climb is 11b, clipping themselves into the fixed rope and traversing left to finger prince to steal draws knows that they aren't litter. if they dont then they have their head up their ass. there is a societal consensus in clear creek go check out sonic youth or the primo wall.

SAL wrote:Cass, Did you post on this site before you hung them? Maybe a warning/disclaimer so someone knew you were at least coming back?

nice thought, and i have thought about that too, but drawing attention like that is almost begging for someone to snatch them. 1)there are alot of @$$holes on MP. 2)who is to say that the dip shit that stole his draws even looks at MP.com?

i guarantee the issue is not something innocent like this prick thinking they were booty or abandoned. that is bullshit to justify that.

cass, sorry to hear about this. you certainly do have a nice approach to get them back. good luck. if my draws are still up on the Gauntlet, you can have those.

as far as whoever took the draws. karma is a bitch, and what if a micro-crack has grown in each biner the length of the cross-section in the moment you thieved them...

but... sad to say, in this day of age and this area, i pretty much assume that if i leave gear on route i am working, that it will be gone. thats why i usually use my most unwanted "project draws" for this. it seems like not as much of a loss that way if someone took a draw with oval grooved biners with gates that dont close.

or a slightly more effective way is quicklinking them in with a wrench. that would buy maybe another day...

i will keep my eye out for them around CCC, cass. are they marked with your tape? brand?

John Langston wrote:I certainly am an asshole (only ranked #3 officially though) and even I wouldn't steal quickdraws. Hell, not only am I an asshole, I'm a poor (thus motivated for free gear), trad elitist (thus motivated to stick it to the sportos), bad sport climbing (therefore feeling entitled to take a prize for not sending), asshole. And I still wouldn't take the damn draws. Cassidy, I thought you only climbed in Utah like all the other Golden climbers? Who'd you steal those draws from in the first place?

and you wouldnt be caught dead in CCC
;)

John Langston wrote: I would have said hi but I was scared of that beard

wall90s?

howdy!

I think "removing" draws from hard climbs will do little else but encourage people to install more permanent protection (chain draws), which will lead to increased impact/visibility.

Taking a leaver biner/quickdraw is one thing, but removing all the draws from a hard route somebody's working is another. Why don't we just remove all the bolts for routes we don't think belong on a particular wall? Oh wait, some people actually do that.

Braxton Norwood wrote:... but removing all the draws from a hard route somebody's working is another.

brings up a good point: why a "hard" route? what if someone is projecting a 5.10? 5.11? 5.8? where does one draw the line?

kind of devils advocate. but i am trying to understand what makes someone take project draws. or is it an unwritten rule, that the "harder" the climb, fewer climbers are able to take the draws. lesser chance..?

probably no clean cut answer here, just bored.

John Langston wrote: Probably has more to do with ease of removal. If you're getting lowered off a 5.8, chances are that you are lowering right past the draws. It doesn't add any effort to clean them. Lets look at two harder routes, Slammer and Wet Dream are pretty much the same grade. Slammer almost always has fixed draws where you'll probably never ever see fixed draws on Wet Dream. This probably has the most to do with how simple one route is to clean and what a PITA it is to clean the other. I'd say pain in the assedness has more to do with permadraws than grade. Although I was on Scavenger in Mill Creek a couple days ago, it's vertical and easy to clean, I didn't have a prayer on that thing without fixed draws.

good point. now that i think of it, there has been several occurances of draws being stolen from Interstellar, including my own.

but, yeah, some routes are equipped such, that they "climb" better as the redpoint, with in-situ draws. some routes feel a letter grade or two harder when having to hang the draws.

sounds like i am whining. lets see, a perfect example: who has onsighted/redpointed Sonic by placing the draws? Twitch?

Thanks for all of the entertainment Friends and family of the climbing community. I know that when I leave draws that I am taking the risk of losing them. Still, it pisses me off when some asshole (I'm done being nice and unassuming now) steals my shit because they are out there with a rope and harness but are incapable of understanding simple climbers ethics and sense of unity. To answer Derek, yes all of the other routes are still equipped. There is a chossy 5.10 next to Finger Prince so actually they were easy taking. Darren thank you for your generosity, but I enjoy having draws up on The Gauntlet, its one of my favorite 12's. The quickdraws were old grey DMM's without tape, its not so much that I need them just the principle of the thing. I thought that I would give the thief a chance to man up and return them without feeling persecuted, a ship which has now long since sailed.