Metolius Master Cams - Update

Greg wrote: Better than going head-in on a pillar of rock like my friend Caleb did a couple of years back when he hung on a supposedly "good" Alien and the head popped off. He's seriously lucky he isn't dead or taking his meals through a straw.

Your friend sounds like the guy who almost died when his Yellow Alien fell apart when he fell on Soulders Crack. If so, he posted as "Pins and Bones" on Rockclimbing.com. I thought the name he chose was pretty funny, given how bad he really got injured.
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Has anyone on this board had the Metolius Master Cams out for a spin yet? I think they are starting to sell a few sizes on MGEAR.Com right now. It's been kind of cold around here lately, but once it warms up hopefully I'll get out climbing and someone I know will have some.

As you can see from my previous post the ranges on the new Master Cams, and the new reported ranges for all other Metolius cams, didn't make sense to me either. Because of this I e-mailed Metolius again and they explained the difference. I'll summarize their response.

The CE requirements use 3 equations to calculate the small and large positions of a frictional anchor based on EN standard 12276. (I haven't checked any CE or EN resources to confirm.) Using the values b min = min adjustable width and b max = max adjustable width, the equations are as follows.

Position 1: s = b min + [(b max - b min)/4]
Position 2: s = b min + [(b max - b min) 3/4]
Position 3: s = b min + [(d max - b min)/2]

Position 1 and position 2 are the min and max reported on the Metolius website respectively.

If this is correct Metolius is only reporting the 25% to 75% expansion for each cam hence their total range is larger than reported. I did a little algebra and determined the equations below, to determine b min and b max using the website values, s1 for min and s2 for max. (Please feel free to check my math.)

b min = (3/2)*s1 - (1/2)*s2
b max = (3/2)*s2 - (1/2)*s1

If anyone has any Master Cams it would be great to confirm the theory with actual physical measuements.

tytonic wrote:The CE requirements use 3 equations to calculate the small and large positions of a frictional anchor based on EN standard 12276. (I haven't checked any CE or EN resources to confirm.)

is the best I can find. It refers to the three positions in the context of strength measurement. The document does not say what range should be reported by manufacturers, but it's not the complete standard.

Jed Pointer wrote:"aliens seem to beat them on expansion range pretty handily." For a given cam angle, the expansion range is going to be exactly equal. The only difference is that Aliens don't have much overlap between their cams.

Metolius uses the narrowest cam angle on the market and CCH, if I'm not mistaken, uses the widest. (See my earlier post on the second page of this thread.)

Well, I received my #3 Master Cam in the mail yesterday. First impressions were that it looks and feels very solid and well-manufactured...then I noticed the strings that attach the trigger assembly to the cam lobes.

Does anyone know how durable this "Kevlar" thread is?

I guess it is the same kind they have on the Supercam, but does anyone even own one of those things?

The cam is very flexible with regards to vertical movement and the trigger can be retracted even when the cable is bent up or down.

But, I would be very hesitant to place this cam in a horizontal orientation because the entire trigger assembly locks up when it is bent due to the placement and rigidity of the trigger "sleeve".

Aside from my hesitations with horizontal placement, it seems like these cams will perform very well and can be trusted not to fall apart (except maybe the Kevlar shoestring?).

As a side note, it is funny to me that 4 of the 7 GREEN Rangefinder dots are in such a position that they will NEVER come into contact with rock during a placement. Pretty optimum, eh? Heaven forbid someone should actually USE those things.

Now that these are being shipped, I'm curious to hear what someone else thinks of these cams. I have yet to use or fall on mine so my observations are pretty limited, but I'm looking forward to comparing this to my Aliens.

DFrench wrote:Well, I received my #3 Master Cam in the mail yesterday. First impressions were that it looks and feels very solid and well-manufactured...then I noticed the strings that attach the trigger assembly to the cam lobes. Does anyone know how durable this "Kevlar" thread is? I guess it is the same kind they have on the Supercam, but does anyone even own one of those things?

I have broken the kevlar thread on a supercam the day the cam was bought. It broke when it was being taken out. One of the lobes must of had a little knob in the groove on the lobe. When i reached in to pull it out, it snag a little, i applied more pressure to the trigger and POP. I have never left behind a nut, a cam or anything else for that matter except tat. So I'm not ruling out bad placement but it wasn't over cammed or anything. I guess a piece is as good as its weakest link so i'll probably never buy a cam with "kevlar" threads. Plus, all my aliens are 99/00 so I'm in no need of these new cams,....yet

I love my supercam and the kevlar.

John,

got any idea what generation it is? I was thinking mine might have been before they work some bugs out since mine was right when they came out. I still think it is a cool design, was real disappointed when it broke.

Side note, they are easy to fix once you are on the ground. They sell a kit.

Joey Wolfe wrote:John, got any idea what generation it is?

Not sure what generation, but it was made 09/05. I didn't realize there was glue anywhere, it just looks to me that there is an overhand knot keeping it from sliding through the hole. I guess only time will tell, but I do know that I have way too many Camalots with frayed wires, which is a pain in the ass.

Anyone brought these yet?

Metolius Master Cams have arrived in Boulder. Neptune's got 'em. They don't have #0 or #00 yet though.

RIP, CCH. :)

--Marc

Thanks for the update Jed. Where did you get them from?

Anyone know if there are any plans for hybrids or "offsets as they call them"? I can't wait to try some of these once I heal up.

Will, I would really like to get a set and compare them to C3's and Aliens but I just can't afford them right now! Glad you liked the C3 review.

Hopefully someone will post one up soon. I know that John over at Rc.com has a set and is hoping to post a review up this month.

I didnt read this whole thread, I got to the part of the back and forth fights with out valued information so hopefully someone can catch me up if there was any answers to my questions. So I just got my grubby little hands on the new Master Cam. I like it for the exception of one hang up. This new Kevlar Glue in cord. It looks like nylon, and glued in???????? Im an aid climber, I know abuse, Im worried this stuff is going to break or come unglued. Metolius has always had an great reputation when it comes to "not " having to replace triggers, unlike other brands, Not to mention any (bd) ahum. Has anyone put these things to the test yet?? what about sand and water breaking down the glue? What about the cords durability to the abuse against the rock?

I believe that they have been using the kevlar cord and glue for sometime on their SuperCams and so far they have only had one return and that was a glue issue. The cord apparently holds up well.

This is from information I saw posted somewhere else but I can't remember where!

Some comments over on cascadeclimbers from people who have put down hard cash for master cams.

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/778601/Board/31/fpart/all/gonew/1#UNREAD

John McNamee wrote:Some comments over on cascadeclimbers from people who have put down the hard case for master cams.

I didn't know they could climb rock in the cascades yet, this season ;)

Avery: sure, and it's pretty good right now. Todays snow level 1000 feet. So the am gets some you some powder runs till you get bored or if it gets slushy in the sun (you're at 4500-7000 feet so you can ski all day.)

Snow skiing around here usually goes all summer till @ late September-Early October when there is too little snow, but with this winters dump, this years snow skiing should be year-round. Later in the day hit any south facing cliff below snow level and it's a sweet spot climbing day moment to finish the day out. Because the deciduous trees have not re-grown their leaves yet, anyplace in the sun out of the wind feels like 70 degrees.

Sometimes by 3-4 pm after both rock climbing and skiing same day I'm home, Pwn'ed, showered and back in bed for an afternoon nap much to my wifes amusement.

That is: except for days like today where it was snowing on the Mountain (temp 16-21 degrees with 9" of new snow today for a total of 199" mid-mountain where I go) and raining hard below in the valleys and lowlands. Then you either go catch some freshiez, work, or maybe go for a hike to watch the creeks rise:-) That is, unless you head to Smith Rocks or a similar spot where it's dry, warm and pretty good most the time now.

Any new information on the Master Cams? It would be good to get the low-down from someone who's actually climbed on them for a while.

Also, has anyone heard if they are going to produce any hybrids?