LET THE MADNESS STOP!

tenesmus wrote:
"Brian, While I agree that Tony has changed his tone he didn't start out that way."
Tony said:
"I don't agree."

Tony, There's nothing wrong with changing your tone. I've done it a bit over the years. If climbers are going get along, some bending or change will occur.

Stephen Colbert wrote:Once again tenesmus, WATCH your back

Considering what happened whey Tyler disagreed with Tony I think you are very right. I'm not saying Tony did anything, but how many of his "soldiers" are out there. In all honesty, this makes me very nervous. I am disturbed by "chances" given.

It really is too bad that thread was deleted if only for the fact that I could go back and mine the many pages of data for a stronger rebuttal. But I'm going climbing with my friends. None of whom are people Tony claims have been badgering him. No idea where that conspiracy came from.

Wow, Mr. Calderone, you seem to have it all figured out. I am happy someone has finally had the balls to openly chop, and alter routes at will, and openly admit to doing so. I speak for MYSELF, and no one else(aka Mr. Phillips or Douglas). Please stop taking climbing ethics into your own hands. This kind of behavior can ultimately put, someone in a very disastrous situation. Namely ME!!!!!!!!!, if I have climbed a route in the past and expect something to be there and suddenly on lead I am cruxing and I find that essential bolt or anchor gone because you have chosen to remove it, now I am put in a very compromising situation. Basically because you removed something I am counting on, now my life or safety is in jeopardy because of you. You are potentially putting people in harms way very uneccessarily. You are not the all seeing all knowing GOD of climbing ethics (in fact some people in City of Rocks don't think so either in case you forgot). Yes I agree that sometimes the first assentionist might not have put things in the best place, but that is thier route and thier bolts, not yours. Please stop altering routes before you hurt someone. If it's your route go ahead, you put it up, you payed for the hardware, and you worked on it. Alter at will, but don't do it to MY routes. Any route that I have helped put up I have worked very hard on and take pride in the FINISHED product. You have insulted my friends and thier integrity beyond repair. This is my last post involving this kind of issue, because I can no longer involve myself in ANY interaction with someone who I feel is a dangerous person. Tony Calderone I feel your actions make you a potentially harmful person, stop altering routes before you harm or kill not only myself, but my friends.

cobra kid wrote:Alter at will, but don't do it to MY routes. Any route that I have helped put up I have worked very hard on and take pride in the FINISHED product.

So if I come to the base of a route it will say "Cobra Kid" on it? Lol. I mean, how is he suppose to know if it is a Cobra Kid route?! lol...

C.K., I get what you are saying, I am just laughing because I haven't seen any routes that say the first ascent was done by the Cobra Kid. (But that would be cool.)

At the same time, I think you are probably ignoring the safety issues that Tony has probably helped. To say that he is a complete danger seems a little much. If he has put 5000 dollars worth of bolts/chains, etc. in the Wasatch, I get the sense that climbs must be atleast a little safer because of it, not less safer.

For the record, I do not know Tony.

...so I've been lurking on the groups here watching the whole "Tony thing" play out. Finally, it seems things are turning back to actual discussion and whatnot. Then "cobra kid" starts trolling. Who are you and why are so you bent on flaming Mr. Calderone?

Cobrakid, what are you talking about? Tony is out there spending his own money pulling and replacing the 1/4"ers. Have you ever seen how incredibly easy those are to break off? Maybe if you did you would say something like, I don't know, thanks? The only bolts he's removed have been bolts added to routes that the FA has given prior permission to do so. Most routes Tony 'alters' are when he is simply replacing 1/4" bolts with 3/8" bolts, other than that, he cuts and takes wads of webbing and replaces with sturdy and properly fit chains. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing where he is trying to kill you and your friends. I'd even be willing to bet that most routes he replaces the old hardware on, he doesn't even plan to climb again which would appear that he is probably not just thinking of himself. How dare he! And one last thing, cobrakid...how much money or even time have you invested into replacing death bolts for others to enjoy? Maybe you could clip into some of the remaining 1/4" bolts, climb to the next, then fall. Maybe then you will decide if Tony is really just a dangerous person who's looking to kill climbers. Get real.

Cobra kid....you say you speak for yourself...but you don't tell us who you are!!! So your words have ZERO credibility in my opinion. Who are you, what routes have YOU put up?

cobra kid...

go home! if you find yourself up on a route and you don't know what to do cause the bolt you thought was gonna be there ain't there...you ought to just stick to the gym.

as for OTABC, which it seems like you are mainly referring to...you can see the entire route, not only from the base, but also if you walk up towards nanook a bit...if you get on a climb...you better be able to do something with it...period...if you can't do anything cause your panties are all in a bunch from the lack of bolts...go cry to mommy...

Tony Calderone wrote: They have been misrepresenting themselves and lying about me on here for a while. They are trying to give people the illusion that there are more people upset with me that there really are.

I am personally upset with you for taking matters into your own hands and altering routes put up by other people. I've seen numerous posts from you complaining about people adding or removing hardware from established climbs yet you do the same yourself. Your hypocriscy amazes me.
Seems to me that throughout this whole mess you've been the one lying and sidestepping the issues.

Tony Calderone wrote:Granger, What you are not seeing is that "cobrakid" is actually part of the same small OTABC/Stiffler Tribe that has waged personal attacks on me all along. They are just masquerading as more people. They have been misrepresenting themselves and lying about me on here for a while. They are trying to give people the illusion that there are more people upset with me that there really are. If they lie about me enough times and I don't deny it people who don't know me might start believing it. You can already see it happening on here to a small extent. But if I denied their accusations it would not change their mind about anything. The OTABC/Stiffler Tribe will only believe what supports their position. This group has no interest in a mature and respectful discussion of the issues or compromising in any way. Their choice of language is an obvious reflection of how they feel about themselves. If they had any interest in mature dialogue they would have engaged in it long ago.

I think your conspiracy theory is hilarious. Never met Tyler before all of this. But after seeing the way you treated him and tried to bully him I befriended him. No idea who any of these other people are. You think you're so picked on. I've already mentioned the way to deal with it and earn your credibility back. its ok to be nice tony. Its ok to let it flow out of you. I know you can do it. I just know it....

I do believe that somewhere on this site you list the hardware you removed/dismantled on the coalpit butress. Is this not altering a route put up by another person or persons?

Alter (from Latin "the other", also means "old man" in Yiddish, German language) means to make different.

Tony, why you do not clarify your language (refer to my previous definition of "chop") in these contexts surprises me. Do you like to fan the flames?

As far as an attempt to clarify why dont we say altering means changing the number of fixed protection points.

Now, how many routes did you alter?

Yeah, yeah, yeah Mr. Garrett, now tell us about this 17 pitch route!

As soon as you wrote about 17 pitches, the rest of what you wrote was just background noise! lol...

Oh man you're killing me...

All I know is that Carrie (and her fam) may or may not have a kegerator. Doesn't that make her exempt to rude comments?

Sorry, just trying to keep this thread about beer.

James, you asked about 1/4 inchers failing, and i can think of two i've been involved with. I have a nice 1/4" bolt mr brother pulled out with his fingers from an obscure route at Rushmore years ago(somewhere to the left of Weird Water and Gilson Chimney). I also have firsthand knowledge of a bolt head that snapped off under the weight of a quickdraw and some rope drag on a route at Sylvan Lake - I believe it was on Shelob, but i'm not positive about that right now. Both bolts were in granite as bomber as it gets and looked good at first glance, but i believe the bolts were placed poorly in both cases to make them fail in those ways.

The enchainment sounds cool. In the swell?

Glad it went will for you guys. Can't wait to make it down there!

oh, and we went back and did Betty's Altered Elbow and Romance on the Rocks saturday. For all you guys out there - Betty's is one of the only 4-pitch 5.9 clip-ups in the Wasatch. James is a serious contributor who does fantastic work.

and he really loves Metallica!!!

tenesmus wrote:Glad it went will for you guys. Can't wait to make it down there! oh, and we went back and did Betty's Altered Elbow and Romance on the Rocks saturday. For all you guys out there - Betty's is one of the only 4-pitch 5.9 clip-ups in the Wasatch. James is a serious contributor who does fantastic work. and he really loves Metallica!!!

wait a second, is "Betty's..." the furthest upcanyon climb (lookers left)? It starts by climbing the arete up the waterfall (when there is water) and then turns right up the slab to 1st anchor...then goes up steeper terrain for a short pitch...then where?

Basically, the whole climb is above that obvious looking dihedral that is a real spookfest...

that's 5.9???

i have never met either james or TC.

my impression of james is of someone who likes to climb and explore and opens up new opportunities of adventure for the community.

my impression of TC is that i want you to stop altering routes at all. the drivel we read here is not worth the price of new shiny bolts. instead of patting yourself on the back, you ought to learn how to deal with people.

TC youcome across here like a complete jerk,

you deserve any and all flames in all these threads,

you are not represetative of the wasatch climbing community,

and you give us a bad name.

please refrain from your selfless acts of old anchor replacement. its not worth the price of your self-righteous attitude.

ps - i never once got to a bolt and thought, gee, i wich tony had been here....

Couldn't have said it better James!